By Jennie
Well, we’ve been through quite a selection of nuts and…more nuts, but we’re nearing the end of our journey, and have finally arrived at a viable candidate. The only viable candidate, though almost paradoxically the one no one really likes. Yes, it’s time to eviscerate review Willard Mitt “Mittens” Romney.
Will I confirm Republicans’ worst fears about Mittens if I confess that I, certified bleeding-heart liberal, find it hard to get up much enthusiasm to go after Romney? It’s not that I want him to be the next President of the United States – I absolutely don’t. But when I look at the various knocks on Romney, none of them resonate for me or inspire outrage. When the most objectionable anecdote about you involves your showing poor judgment in your stewardship of an animal almost 30 years ago, are you really that bad of a human being? Newt Gingrich, for one, has treated wives worse than that, and more recently, too.
I’m not trying to downplay the distastefulness of Romney’s behavior, which was covered recently on our site. I love animals, too. I’m just not sure what it says about Romney today, being that it happened so long ago. But don’t worry, there’s plenty of available, recent evidence that Romney is a total jackass!
One thing I do think the old story says is that Romney can’t read a room to save his life. He’s repeatedly shown that he doesn’t get what he did wrong when he strapped that poor dog on top of his car and went careening down the freeway. More recent examples of Romney’s out-of-touchness with…anyone normal include, but are not limited to:
- The $10,000 bet he challenged Rick Perry to during a debate in December. You could tell by the way that Romney offered the bet that $10K was to him what $20 might be to the average American – not a piddling amount, but not substantial enough to take really seriously.
- In January, Romney characterized his income from public speaking thusly: “I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much.” How much is not very much? For Romney, a hair under $375,000 a year.
- Romney’s blithe statement that he’s not concerned with the very poor because “they have a safety net”, an assertion that as a Not Very Poor Person, Mittens may not be entirely qualified to make. Even more Marie-Antoinettish, though, was his assertion that if this vaunted safety net has holes, he’ll fix them. Well, problem solved! Why did no one before Romney think of that? (Aside to Mitt. Jesus – I believe he’s your god, too – is on record as saying “the poor will always be with us.” There’s no record of him following up with, “but no biggie, ‘cause I totes got it covered.”)
- Then there’s that quote about liking to fire people, which got Mitt in trouble way back…oh, I think it was sometime when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. (What can I say? It’s been a long campaign season). In Romney’s defense, this was in the context of talking about getting rid of a service provider who is not giving good service. Still, it came off a bit like he was saying he liked to pull the wings off of flies…if they got in his face. It’s one thing to do what’s necessary; it’s another to enjoy it. (It didn’t help that at the same rally, Romney claimed that he too had been in the position of worrying that he might get fired. Imagine. What would he have survived on? His small income from public speaking and his many, many investment dividends? Oh, the horror! Where is his safety net?)
- Mittens is really at his most obnoxious when he thinks he’s being cute and relatable, as when he told a group of out-of-work Floridians, “I’m also unemployed.” Seriously, Mitt. Stop. Just stop.
As you may have noticed, a lot of Romney’s gaffes revolve around the fact that he is Really, Really Rich, has apparently always been Really, Really Rich, and appears to relate to the non-rich the way a Martian might relate to a hedgehog. This isn’t really Romney’s fault, per se, but it would be ever so helpful if he could acknowledge it, acknowledge the gulf it creates between him and most Americans, and stop acting like it’s some adorable, slightly wacky foible that we should all find charming.
The other common knock on Romney is that he’s a flip-flopper and/or not a “real conservative”. It’s true that his positions have changed a lot since his governor-of-Massachusetts days, but I still feel like the flip-flopper label is a bit unfair.
We expect so much of politicians. We want them to have our own values and views on the issues. There seems to be less and less respect for someone holding a different point of view, or the idea that someone can hold a different viewpoint and not be crazy, or stupid, or evil. People never seem to quite get that a politician is serving a broad constituency – unless you are an alderman in a homogenous town with a population of 100, and even then, you probably have some variance in viewpoints amongst those 100 people. It would be great if politicians were honest about what they believed, but any politician that wants to get beyond the office of alderman has to make some compromises.
Romney’s front-runner status is further complicated by his Mormon faith – he would, of course, be the first Mormon president (bonus presidential trivia: do you know which two presidents were Quakers? The answer – at the end – may surprise you!). Just as President Obama’s campaign brought out prickly and defensive insistences that nobody cared about his ethnic makeup, Romney’s campaign has brought out those who swear up, down and sideways that anti-Mormon prejudice is a thing of the past. I’m not so sure, myself. What interests me is that some of the most fervent anti-Mormon prejudice of the past comes from those that Romney is going to need to win in November – religious Christians.
Ultimately, there is still a lot campaign left before the Republican convention, and then (assuming he’s still in it) there will be a few short months (that will probably feel endless) until November. Will we get to know the real Mitt Romney during that time? Probably not, if his advisers have anything to say about it. If he is somehow elected President, it’ll probably say more about voters’ feelings about President Obama than their enthusiasm for Romney.
Coming up next: Last, and quite possibly least, Rick Santorum!
Presidential trivia answer: Herbert Hoover and Richard Nixon were both raised in the Quaker faith. I’m not sure it took, in either case.
About the Author:
Jennie has contributed to Imperfect Women since its inception in 2009. She writes about politics, celebrity news, and anything else that catches her interest. She can be reached at jennie@imperfectwomen.com.
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Comments
68 Responses to A Democrat’s Take on the Republican Presidential Candidates: Make Way for Mittens!
Did I just read ‘a bleeding heart liberal’ can only come up with…’mittens’. So he is RICH…did I say RICH? He’s a MORMON…did I say MORMON? (“Media Matters” & “Daily Kos” etc. have parsed his every word ad nauseum.) ‘Flip flopper’ must still be mired in cemented history of another Mass. former, RICH, liberal candidate…(no, not a Kennedy) who brilliantly vetted that ‘prince charming’ from NC for VP…who OWNS ‘FLIP FLOPPER’~ Gucci-style!
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Jennie, you are right…we do expect much out of our candidates…HONESTY might be a biggie. I think it interesting that the Dems are doing Nixonian dirty tricks…to push Mitt to the fore. Wonder why?
Yes Romney is rich! He is a Mormon! He made a stupid move 30 years ago with a family pet. I don’t think you have to be poor or come from a poor upbringing to run the country. None of those are reasons for me not to vote for him.
Newt Gingrich, for one, has treated wives worse than that, and more recently, too.
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How true! Did I hear Newt was dropping out? Poor Mitt, even in an article about him we are talking about others.
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I actually was going to say the biggest gripe I have about Mitt is that he is such a flip-flopper, but you got me thinking that maybe I am too hard on him. It really takes two very different politicians to appeal to your average moderate Mass. voter and the more extreme right that are expected to turn out for the Republican primaries. That said, when you compare him to someone who stands truer in his ideology – a Santorum, for instance – it is hard to admire his willingness to blow with the wind.
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Personally, I don’t care that Mitt is rich (good for him, but it is fun to make fun of him for how out of touch he is). I would be fine with a Mormon president. I actually think Mitt would probably govern more from the center anyway (a place I am comfortable with). I will vote for Obama, but I’m sure I could live with Romeny as President. My biggest concern would be further Republican nomininations to the Supreme Court if Romney got in.
Pam, my point is simply that he needs to own it. He comes off smug and phony when he says things like, “I’m unemployed too.” I don’t begrudge him his wealth, or even care that it makes him out of touch with the average American. I think by the time you are running for president, you’re pretty much by definition out of touch with the average American.
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Anya, I hadn’t heard Newt was dropping out. Interesting! And then there were two…wait, Ron Paul is still there, right? I should be able to remember this…
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My only issue with the flip-flopping is that it was made such an issue of with Kerry. I kind of want Romney to be held to the same standard, even if I think it’s an unfair one. But I do know that all of us, Republicans and Democrats alike, have to find ways to justify our candidate’s choices and actions.
It is sad when anyone has to resort to name calling. Calling any presidential candidate from either party a “total jackass” is sophomoric at best.
Well, Jennie, you nailed it. Mitt *seems* clueless about his wealth and he does have a real problem “reading a room.” It’s not enough for me to dump him. I’ve given Obama a try. I’ve voted for AND against Santorum in PA (we all have, here.)Newt irritates me as much as our current POTUS. I’m guessing this is the guy who will end up with my vote.
I’m asking one main question in November before I choose: Can he fix this economy? (I’d ask, “Can SHE fix it,” but once again- that will not be a choice.)
It’s really simple for me…Anyone but Obama. The lies are mounting to new levels in his campaign march for a second term. I think we should hold him to his word when he said….If I can’t get the job done I don’t deserve a second term. I agree.
Ann, do you really think that the economy problems are Obama’s fault, or within his complete power to fix? I think people need to accept that there are a lot of factors that have gotten us where we are, and that it’s not anything that any one person, even the POTUS, can fix right away. Especially not when Republicans have opposed him at every turn.
Calling any presidential candidate from either party a “total jackass” is sophomoric at best.
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Sophomoric? Maybe. What do you think of Santorum questioning Obama’s Christian values saying they are “different.” Below the belt? I think so.
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Back to Ann’s question – the best economy we have had in my adult lifetime was under Bill Clinton. Anyone want to help me get that silly 22nd amendment reversed?
Off the rail w. Santorum’s statement taken WAAAY out of context. The WH knows it, & Media Matters has created a 25th hr. of news cycles of ‘gotcha politics’. Jennie, I believe…want to believe, that NO ONE MAN can ‘fix’ our economic woes. You know it, & I pray those who vote realize what indeed has been going on w. this continued ‘cradle to grave’ mentality. I’ll give Clinton credit, where credit is due…he was smart enough to know our welfare system needed changing. He did it along w. a conservative Congress…under the leadership of – you guessed it, Newt Gingrich.
All this great country need do is look across the pond & see how quickly they are trying to get out from under the impossible mission of taking care of every aspect of birth thru’ death. It’s no new concept that ‘the rich get richer, & the poor get poorer’…& the middle class is being fed a dose of post Depression pap! (Imagine – France & Germany want privatization of their healthcare system???)
Just the ‘thought’ of what is happening to our medical choices, school choices, FOOD choices…the air we breathe…what we drive, how we drive…I need not go on, but in 3 short years there is finger-pointing & class warfare that is shoved in our face every single day. (At least Jimmy Carter pushed Habitat for Humanity vs. Fannie & Freddie give-aways.) Obama is running out of excuses. The PRICE OF GAS is something HE CAN ease the pain of…this was on his plate long before he took office. ‘Drill baby drill’…!
Yes, Jennie, I think some of them are. I really do. Maybe not all- obviously- but he really hasn’t been able to help the economy turn around. I believe business leaders when they say that.
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From my personal experience: My husband has had to deal with tough new regulations imposed by the Federal government on their products. The products they were making in 2009 were just fine. Safe, efficient, quiet-enough. Holding the regulations to those standards will not cost one life or in any way harm the environment. Just because something can be made better, doesn’t mean it is feasible to make it better, especially when it really is good enough already. The new regulations have harmed the industry financially, cost jobs, and panicked the people in charge of the business. Just so they are a tiny bit quieter? That’s a stupid Obama thing that has harmed the economy.
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He did the same thing to the truck industry recently, if my husband can be believed.
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Anya, Bill Clinton would not have made the mistakes Obama did, IMO. He was not the Republicans favorite by far, but he worked better with them than the current Administration. I like to see some compromise- not of principles, but of in practice. They have to show more respect for each other.
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Don’t even get me started on the religious liberty thing. You’d think George the III was reincarnated!
HB, I have to agree about the “cradle to grave” mentality. At least I think what you mean is: it is not the job of the FEDERAL government to do that. I agree. It is the job of the people to do that for each other, for our families and friends and those who have no one to heep them. I would add it is the job of the Christians to do it also. That charge- to care for the poor, bury the dead, console the sorrowful, fight for justice for those who suffer- that is what Christ commanded of his followers. Those are Judeo-Christian values, and most likely the values of people of many other faiths. The more we do privately to help each other, the less the federal government will try to interfere or do it for us. Remember what motivates the people in government to play Robin Hood, “take from the rich and give to the poor.” It is that they see a need that is not being filled. OK, yes, some do it to get the love and political support- votes- of a constituency who give them power. I accept the cynic’s perspective too. But it is not right of me to assume that is the only motivator or even the strongest one.
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HB, I know that you have done a lot for our servicemen and women. Snickers often encourages us to remember the food bank recipients. Sage has promoted caring for distressed and homeless animals. If there were more Snickers and HBs and Sages around, the problems would be solved!
I missed Santorum’s comment. I think the last time I really took a good look at the Republican field, Herman Cain was leading the polls. I need to pay attention!
To think that this Administration has nothing to do with this economy is simply naive. Even the President has said he would keep unemployment below 8% if we would only do… He kind of says that a lot . If we would only do… this or that he could fix things. Well now it’s being said that if the Health Care Bill is fully implemented the costs will sky rocket for premiums. His own people are saying this. So yes…one person can have an extreme effect on whether they can do harm or good for our economy. Did anyone see the interview of the Starbucks CEO on Sunday morning, he thinks so too. Even if he does not want to directly blame anyone.
I’m not happy with the options, But I will do what we always do, which is to choose the lesser of two evils. And between Obama and Romney, for me its Romney.
Samantha, if Santorum beats Romney in Michigan, you may be choosing Santorum. It’s been an interesting election cycle, I’ll say that much!
I guess I wonder what happens if people don’t come forward and help each other? I don’t care if the government does it or private citizens do it, but I think it needs to be done. I know very well that there are people who wouldn’t care if others suffered and died in poverty, as long as they got to hold onto more of their money.
Jennie, what an awful America you see. I can NOT imagine who you are referring to. There are those that would idly sit by & WATCH others ‘suffer’ & ‘die in poverty’…b/c the $$$ they earn is NOT REALLY FAIR? CLASS WARFARE is on the march.
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Now it’s not just ‘Occupy Wall Street’…it’s just OCCUPY b/c it’s the ‘touchy – feely’ thing to do. Yup, the ‘guardian angels’ have come to DC b/c the poor want ‘smart phones’. The PD is too busy garnering overtime to protect the protesters…who are raiding the REAL ‘soup kitchens’ who DO serve the needy.
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OCCUPY is the new ACORN! I’ll take a leap…look at Greece. We are NOT far behind.
The thing is- if you don’t see the poor, you may not be aware of what is happening. I learned that by working in the poorest part of our city. I had no idea what the need was until I started working there. I really admire the woman runs the school, daycare, and group home for single moms where I provide services. She’s a good woman.
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That center where I work and my job are funded with federal and state dollars. It is actually underwirtten by a Christian Bible Church also. It’s a combination of government and private dollars. If either the church or the state reduce funding, it will be hard to keep it going.
Jennie,
I think you only see a small window of America. I can tell you in my area it’s the business owner that gives money for scholorships to the local schools every year. If you keep picking on the rich, they will hoard their money, they don’t receive the appreciation from people who knock them for working hard and giving back. We need jobs so people can have a sense of pride, instead of the handout all the time.
Ann, I know of what you serve. It is a worry country-wide. The reality of those who do open their wallets is that those who have given…have less to give. Our church supports many community outreach programs w. not just money, but TIME. What we have found is that increasing government (local & federal) regulations have become counterproductive to what has thrived for decades. I’ll name one very large threat…President Obama wants charitable donations to be just that…with NO PERSONAL tax deductions.
Jennie, I know those people exist in both parties, but I don’t believe that is the norm.
Did anyone see the clip of Obama singing with Mick Jagger?
No matter the President, I always love seeing their “normal” side. I thought it was cute.
HB,
I cannot continue to give if we are not given the tax deduction opportunity. Call me selfish, but I do live in the real world. Even donating time to a food bank, I spend hours from home, gas, buying extra every week on my grocery shopping trip. This is just one thing I volunteer for every week. If people want to help others, it takes everyone, not just people who can afford to help. You don’t have to be rich, getting involved in a summer reading program at your local library for children is very rewarding.
No, I’m not saying it’s the norm. But certainly plenty of people express those opinions – look at any internet message board. Heck, people here have expressed contempt for the poor.
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As for “class warfare”, I think promoting the fallacy that rich people are rich because they work harder than everyone else, and poor people are poor because they don’t work hard enough promotes class warfare.
I would like to see one person who has expressed contempt for the poor on this board.
It is not a fallacy that the rich work harder than most. Even the kids who benefit from family money. Someone worked very hard for the wealth achieved and it is their right to pass it on. I find it disgusting that people think they have a right to tax and want to take that money for others.
Class warfare…that’s all the occupy movement is about and look who supports that.
I don’t subscribe to the theory that the rich work harder- but that’s irrelevant. Its their money and its their right to it. The occupy movement is ridiculous. I still can’t figure out what they want.
The occupy movement now say’s “Occupy Everything” now at least they are focused.
I was supportive of Occupy NY, Sam, initially. I do think the “1 percent” thing is a problem. I don’t understand someone thinking it’s a healthy society when a small percentage of people run everything and own everything, and many are just scraping by. I can only guess that such a person aspires to that top rung and doesn’t care about the people suffering below. I really don’t understand the hero worship some have of the very rich. I don’t begrudge anyone their money but I also don’t slavishly admire it.
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Occupy has really devolved into nonsense and worse, though, especially in Oakland. They’ve done a lot of damage. I really can’t stand most of them at this point.
BTW, I thought these clips from last night’s Daily Show perfectly illustrated why so many Americans get sick of politics – the hyperbole and hysterics are so over the top:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-22-2012/indecision-2012—president-evil
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-22-2012/indecision-2012—president-evil-2
I do think the “1 percent” thing is a problem. I don’t understand someone thinking it’s a healthy society when a small percentage of people run everything and own everything, and many are just scraping by.
I think I understand the sentiment behind what you’re saying, but what would the solution be…? Taking from the so called 1%, what is rightfully theirs to give to someone who hasn’t earned it and has no right to it?
Samantha…the REALITY is that more the 50% DO NOT pay federal taxes. I’m oh so certain that The Daily Show is the go-to place for FACTS!
HB, I heard that the other day. Along with the fact that the top 10% pays 70% of collected tax dollars, but to be fair, I have no idea if its accurate since statistics vary by source.
Which do you think is a bigger revenue stream: all the poor people who by dint of being poor don’t pay taxes, or all the rich corporations who by dint of having really good lawyers and a lot of loopholes don’t pay taxes? Mitt Romney paid, what, 13%? I pay way more than that. But some people are concerned about single mothers making $25K a year not paying their fair share? Who is it that’s creating class warfare, again?
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HB, I don’t get my news from The Daily Show; did you bother to watch the clips, though? I don’t see the point in discounting something you won’t even watch.
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Sam, no, and I was talking to Anya about this recently. I’m not a socialist; I don’t believe in redistribution of wealth. I don’t think communism or socialism WORK. But, besides disputing that what the 1% has is “rightfully theirs” (think of CEOs who wrecked their companies and ended up with golden parachutes worth millions – is that really “rightfully” earned?) I don’t believe in unchecked capitalism, either, nor do I think it works.
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Whenever we talk about corporations and people like Romney paying their share of taxes the argument quickly shifts from what is fair and just and right to “oh, no, but you can’t – they’re job creators! They’ll move all their business overseas!” Etc. etc. I don’t have all the solutions (I’m no economist) but I find it telling that the apologists so abruptly switch from arguing about everyone paying their fair share (but no more) to almost expressing fear and intimidation over the idea that “job creators” might get mad and take their toys and go home.
Oh boy do you have issues. Tax all the Rich as much as you want ..it still won’t help with our problem. You know what…tax everybody. Let everybody have some skin in the game. Don’t blame the Rich and the Corporations for the loopholes that Congress allows. In reality they are not loopholes …they are legal ways to take advantage of Tax Law. By the way President Obama’s big advisor you know the guy …the head of GE…have you seen the amount of tax they pay? Oh I forgot Obama’s other friend GM and the Auto Unions….funny how they didn’t pay any taxes either. All Obama’s buddies. You know the ones he rips with all that talk of the rich don’t pay their fair share.
I am so surprised that you don’t want our Corp tax rate to be more like Europe. We are either #1 or #2 in Corp. Tax rate in the world. I would have expected you to be more …European….about that.
From my understanding of Romney’s tax issues- he paid a lower percentage because most of his income came from investments rather than wages. That’s the current tax code and it applies to everyone no matter how much their investment pays off.
Newt Gingrich paid 31%. 31%! Thats way too much regardless of how much money you make. Why don’t they just come in and rob you?
Big business isn’t “Fair”. Most things in life aren’t fair. I’m tired of Republicans being painted as the big bad business wolves when in reality both parties are guilty. I don’t think its fair that 50% of the population pays nothing at all. I don’t care if it’s a tiny amount, something is better than nothing. If that 50% paid a mere $100/year it would go a long way. Plus, explain to me how you get a “Refund” if you paid nothing? I don’t understand that.
Jennie, I did watch Stewart’s clip. Doing what he does…which unfortunately is still ‘camp’ among college students & academia. At best some do know the news behind his so-called satire…others take his characterizations of news VERY seriously. I guess you wouldn’t be surprised…I don’t like his profanity-laced, smirky diatribes.
Sam, Adele addresses that in a post over in the February Open Forum, but my understanding is that a lot of those people are earning so little that anything they would pay would be wiped out by the earned income credit. I guess I don’t understand resenting the very poor – it’s not like they have it so good, you know?
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And with all due respect (you know I love you, Sam!) I think it’s a bit of a cop-out to say “oh, well, life’s not fair.” I mean, I could say the same about people being taxed at a very high rate, too. I think we should all want the tax code to be fair. Of course, we probably have different ideas about what constitutes fair.
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HB, I wasn’t talking so much about what Stewart had to say but about the ridiculous clips of various Republican politicians predicting catastrophe if Obama were elected, predicting some sort of Islamic takeover, and being SO wrong (let’s remember who got Osama bin Laden, not that Republicans will give him credit for it). Which does not stop them from making the same dire predictions should he be re-elected. They should be ashamed of themselves. Such hyperbole really lowers the tenor of discussion.
Oh it’s only Those dastardly Republicans. So where is the share of congrats to President Busch for Osama? To listen to you it was only President Obama who got Osama. Please this act goes both ways. There are just as many clips about Dems too.
And Life is not fair.
4 more years of Obama…is a big mistake!
Says Cindy from Canada;) But keep in mind..whoever the the USA elects greatly effects Canada!
Yes, Jennie – those clips…taken out of context, do make Newt et al look silly. That’s exactly what Jon does. ‘DIRE’ might be too mild. Note: just how quickly O backed off w. applauding his health care redo. He knows squat. Kathleen Sebelius is his brain on this piece of legislation. Note: where O has taken us w. his apology tours around the world. (It’s been proven thru’ history that leading thru’ strength, not weakness…WORKS for the good.) As for Obama being president during Osama’s killing – good luck & excellent military might. His appreciation of the troops…you tell me. If truth be known…even Clinton had more rapor & that’s saying alot! ETC. ETC. Of course we all have our opinions, usually based on life experiences. I’ve been a part of the political scene for many a decade & one thing I can say…I am NO bobble-head for ANY politician. While we spent 25+ yrs. in the military…once one reaches field grade as an officer, politics is a huge part of going up in the ranks! I believe Colin Powell’s career is a great example of just that. Then again, I do digress…!
P. S. There is a very Jon Stewart type of article in the NYTimes…mocking Romney’s “Magic Underwear”.
The attacks on Romney’s religion haven’t even started. Wait till if or when he wins the nomination. We will see Chicago style politics at it’s best.
I don’t resent the poor- And let me just say straight away my husband and myself are not by a long shot wealthy. We’re a young family with 2 children. I’m not the “1%”. We’re probably barely out of the bottom 50% who pay nothing at all.
It sounds like you want to punish those who are wealthy. I say sounds because I know you and I love you and I know that isn’t true. Just like I think you know I have a big heart and I most assuredly don’t resent the poor. Do you think its fair that those who pay nothing get a refund? Which it isn’t technically a “Refund” since there’s nothing to be refunded.
And as far as “Fair” being a cop out- its not a cop out its a fact and I see no way around it rather than good old socialism, which as you pointed out- doesn’t work. And by the way, whether it works or not- it’s wrong.
Stu,
I know religion should have nothing to do with the political race, but Romney should answer the welfare problem in Utah, before he picks on other people. Sorry, I just can’t overlook the welfare that some Mormans (or whatever they are using for religion based rights) are receiving under the 3-6 wifes and children that has been going on for years.
The NYT’s article by Charles M. Blow does attack Romney’s faith!
I am not sure what you are talking about Snickers. Is it illegal? Is it a State issue?
Stu,
I was talking about the LDS branch that broke off of the Morman faith. They still believe in polygamy and many have over 25 children by several wives. The ones not married in this situation can and do receive welfare. Billions of dollars over the years have supported these men and their families, hiding behind the cloth of religion. You need to research this, it is quite interesting how many in Utah, Colorado and Texas benefit.
Guess my grrr is on, just paid my taxes.
I have NO PROBLEM that half the country pays no federal income taxes. Good for them…I’d like to expand that to about 75% of the country, with a huge reduction in spending on the fluffy stuff like the gravel they are spreading on my road (because they have it, not because there is any ice or snow out there) and the bridges-to-nowhere-pork nonsense. And yes, there is a LOT of “welfare” that ends up in the hands of the wealthy (like Solyndra)and politicians (like that Freddie Mac historian running for POTUS.) AND there should be means-testing for Social Security (sorry, Mom & Dad.)
Cindy, I suppose every elected leader affects other countries. I know Canadians aren’t too happy with Pres. Obama’s position on the pipeline from Canada. Do you agree? What issues afect you? I’d love to hear a Canadian’s point of view.
Ann, DID I EVER GET A GOOD CHORTLE!
At least you’re an equal opportunity type of thinker!!! (Poor Newt!) As for ‘means testing’…sounds good to you NOW, but when you spend your working days paying into the pot – it’s still NOT ‘free’ income. Would you say the same to those who are on Medicare?
Ann. Mainly the economy. I’m in favor of the pipeline…lots of jobs on both sides of the border. How do you feel about it? If i may ask.. are you a Liberal or a Conservative.
I am a Conservative and i feel Obama is way to soft on certain things. I am new here and i’d like to “test the waters” before i say more;)
But please know, i am a big fan of the USA:) The kids and i just got home from a two week vacation…and everyone we met were very friendly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDkojvCwac0
As far as the pipeline goes, I don’t see how it could create enough jobs to make much difference, anyway. I have been involved in construction and pipeline work for almost 40 years. It just does not rewuire all that many people to construct a pipeline. My best estimate is 2000 jobs, most of which are temporary. That job can be done in a year, or close to it, with a few hundred people left for operation and repair over a longer term. I do understand the concerns for approving it. It will go across the middle of the country. I know that they will route so as not to displace any more people than necessary, however, there are a lot of people that will be impacted. Leaks are inevitable, construction will have a huge impact and, anyone living in close proximity will be subject to constant rumbling and vibration. Large amounts of liquid running through a pipe that size does not omove noiselessly. We do have to think long and hard before jumping onto the pipeline bandwagon. I am glad that the decision of running it is not mine. Believe me, that pipeline running across the country is a very big deal.
I guess I could respect all of the extreme negativity about Obama more if it were coming from people who didn’t hate him from the moment he was a viable candidate. Someone like Ann, who I think is open-minded, having issues with Obama – I may not agree on every point, but I respect it.
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But when people who are “slightly to the right of Attila the Hun” (to quote “Evita”) bitch about Obama, it just feels like partisan politics. Like, you wouldn’t have given him a chance if he had made it rain gold doubloons and donuts, you know? So what you have to say now feels pretty knee-jerk.
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To be fair, it’s very hard for me to be positive about Republican politicians – because I don’t like the things they do. But I would hope that I would give them credit if they did something that did align with my beliefs (like I would wish Republicans could give Obama credit for Osama bin Laden, because I know damn well that if George Bush had done it they would be falling over themselves praising it).
The majority of Americans wanted President Obama to succeed and that’s why he won the election. Many Whites, Independents, even moderate Republicans voted for him.Iit is his record after three years that is causing the criticism,not hate for him. Both sides have their “hate-mongers”(it seems that you forget how Bush was treated for eight years)but those are the minority and you should stop stereotyping that they are the majority!When presented with rational (not hysterical) criticism of President Obama based in fact you seem to ignore it rather than objectively looking at the information. Criticism does not equal hate but your hate for the Right seems to be based on prejudice.
As for ‘means testing’…sounds good to you NOW, but when you spend your working days paying into the pot – it’s still NOT ‘free’ income. Would you say the same to those who are on Medicare?
Yes, means test it. I’m in the group that has to wait to get SS anyway, and I’m not complaining yet. There are way too many people accessing government services for medical care in the 65+ group, driving up costs for everyone. I KNOW that when you have insurance (and a sue-happy culture,) doctors order more tests. I have lived that fact. Do away with Medicare for all but the poor elderly, and we could afford it. (Please do not tell my parents I wrote that.)
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Cindy, I live in one of the “purplest” counties in the USA. The county can best be described as “conservative Democrats” and that describes me very well. It depends on the issue.
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I am not really sure about the pipeline. I want the oil. I think we need to strengthen, not weaken, our ties to the people of Canada. We have no better ally in the world. I believe there are real concerns about it- see John’s comment above. The pipeline is not being planned for my backyard and I would be very upset if it were. A friend was talking about the process of extracting this oil and the resulting environmental damage. I am just not knowledgable enough about it. I do know that we need energy sources in this country, and we don’t seem to be chasing them as well as we might.
Ann, you don’t think means-testing is just another form of taxing the oh so very rich, or mildly rich, to save a pitiful amount for yet another intrusion into the lives of those who have PAID into the system all their lives? Means-testing is exactly what the Obama, 1 payer system, will ultimately do. Actually it’s already begun in Dr.’s choices of what insurance they will accept. Medicare patients NOT ACCEPTED. This is the very reason WHY so many private practioners are folding & going to hospitals. Surely there is a better way to move the ‘goal posts’ for senior citizens.
Well, I would prefer to pay less into the system and get nothing out than pay as much as we do, and get nothing out, which is what people my age are looking at for our future. Lets just “redistribute” to people who really need it starting today. Most people should not NEED SS and medicare. The fewer accessing it, the less it should cost. It’s a system that needs an overhaul. it worked at one time, but now it’s broken.
An,
You only want people who “NEED” it to receive SS and medicare? Hmmm, do they all get a refund for the years for the years they paid in to the system?
Oh Snickers,
I so agree with you. My Father worked until he was 70 and died of Cancer when he was 71! My Mother started receiving his Social Security and after 1 year received a letter saying they made a mistake! She was not entitled to his Soc Sec because she was receiving a Pension as a retired Teacher. She was forced to pay back over $11,000 in one payment! My Father had been paying in since he was 15 and never received any benefit,neither did his Spouse, Children, or Grandchildren! Once again those who do the right thing get punished. To me this was so unfair. Why shouldn’t his family at least get the money he paid in? Who should determine if they deserve the Soc Sec money? Why should people(like my parents)who started out with nothing and built a comfortable life not be entitled to their own money?
Holly,
I have paid in since I was 14, not old enough to draw anything yet, but do I need it? Who knows, my investments took a major hit the last 2 years. If they are gone and I own some property, is that enough? Heck, I’ll take back my money, with interest paid, some of those years we paid 18-20% interest rates on borrowered money.
I know how you feel about your Father. Same here, my Dad worked hard, tool and dye maker, drew a few SS checks, retired at 68, died at 69. My Mother draws her own, so what happened to my Dad’s? Someone else who never paid into the system is getting it?
Sorry for my typo in above post. My years really continued, LOL.
“so what happened to my Dad’s? Someone else who never paid into the system is getting it?”
Snickers that is exactly what is so infuriating. Sometimes it feels like the people who try to do the “right thing” are the ones getting punished. So sorry about your Dad. The day my Mom had her retirement luncheon from teaching was the day my Dad was diagnosed with Cancer. Next week will be 14 years.
I may be late in getting in on this point but here goes. I have no problem with 505 of money paying no taxes. I have a big problem with the earned income credit that rewards a lot of people for doing NOTHING. When I hand out W-2s each year some people want to leave work immeadiately to file their taxes because they are getting refunds of several thousand dollars. These are usually the same people who work the LEAST amount of hours and do the bare minimum to keep their jobs. If the money were going to help their children I would have no problem with it, however the money is usually blown through with in a very short time with little or no benefit to their children. The government rewards and encourages people who do not try to help themselves in some cases.
I don’t know if I can vote for a man who put his dog on the roof of his car ~ LOL
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/02/15/146929766/why-romneys-shaggy-dog-story-wont-die
Imagine — Mitt Romney launching ‘Whites for Mitt’ (or any of the rest of the GOP candidates), w. Mormons sending out their faithful as ‘congregation captains’. Only it’s Obama who has launched ‘African-Americans for Obama’…encouraging their churches to organize & go thru’ neighborhoods pushing for votes. (I can only imagine what MLK would have to say about this!) I get it – Obama is black, but I also get it…his mother was white, as were the grandparents that looked after him! SHAMEFUL!
HB…Here it is https://my.barackobama.com/afampotusvid I find it disgusting and racist. I think Obama is becoming more and more blatant in his actions because he can’t run again after this election
Obama is getting more and more blatant because his TRUE COLORS are shining through and he CAN NOT run on his record. He’s grasping at any straws he can to get people to vote for him and if it means exploiting his “blackness” he’s gonna do it. These are the moves of a desperate man in my opinion. I didn’t vote for him the first time, ABSOLUTELY NOT voting for him this time!