Written by Samantha
The debate regarding the controversial Arizona Immigration Law wages on. We at IW wanted to offer a respectful place to discuss this hot button issue. Please share your thoughts and feelings on the issue here.
Discussion- Arizona Immigration Law
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94 Responses to Discussion- Arizona Immigration Law
as far as im concerned…illegal immigration started in 1492.
Why is it we are the only country that gets ridiculed for defending our boarders. Might I ad we do it very poorly too.
Why is it we are the only country that gets ridiculed for defending our borders. Might I add we do it very poorly too.
Kathy says: as far as im concerned…illegal immigration started in 1492.
I have to be honest and say this thought sometimes occurs to me too when I see people get so righteously indignant over illegal immigration.
I also think, however, that we have to deal with the reality of where we are today in 2010. Illegal immigration is a serious issue and has consequences for the inhabitants and taxpayers of border states.
I do think Arizona has a PR issue. I believe those who crafted and voted for the law did so with good intentions, but the fact that so many perceive it to have racial profiling components is a problem. How many of us actually read the entire piece of legislation? I haven’t. That said, from what I have heard from honest commentators, the law has the potential to open the door to racial profiling — even if there is language in there that seeks to ensure that doesn’t happen.
I read a piece on theatlantic.com that suggests that aside from ethical concerns, the law may not be the best use of taxpayer funds. I am aware that each side of the argument can tilt facts and numbers one way or another to support their argument, but I left asking why this is being handled on the state or community level instead of at the border?!?
This is such a difficult issue. We are essentially a nation of immigrants. One side of my family came from Germany in the early 1800′s and the other from Scotland and Ireland. There is something to be said for the difference in that time period and now in 2010.
Illegal immigrants come from all countries- not just Mexico, but Mexico is certainly the largest issue. Its hard to say what a Canadian looks like- so I do think Racial profiling will come into play, I don’t see how that could be denied. But as the same time, it is a huge issue and strain on many of our states, not just those that border Mexico. I live in NC and its a huge issue here.
There’s something to be said for the fact that 70% of Arizona residents are for this new law. I don’t have any idea what the answer is. Everyone deserves the chance at a better life- legally. Which is hard to do, it seems. Its hard to fault someone for wanting something better for their family. Even harder to ship them back to where they came from, especially when children are involved. I could never work in immigration. I imagine I would cry all day.
To sum it up: I’m a fence straddling, bleeding heart, with a strong sense of fair play, who wants to secure our borders but has no clue how. I’m so helpful. I should go into politics.
Samantha@IW: I’m a fence straddling, bleeding heart, with a strong sense of fair play, who wants to secure our borders but has no clue how.
Can I join you on that fence?
I am a Naturalized Citizen. Came here from Germany. All I want is our borders protected. As a Country we spend so much money on this issue.
Can some one explain why we have to explain ourselves to China about whats going on in Arizona ? Aren’t they the country that has left female babies to die on the streets and that’s just the beginning? Or the Mexican President telling us how we should run our immigration policy from the White House lawn!
The last time we had Amnesty under Regan it did nothing to fix the problem, now we are in a bigger mess. We don’t need comprehensive immigration reform, we need to secure our borders first. Why is it that this administration thinks the only way to do things is to reform the WHOLE system..whatever the problem is. Can’t we first start at point A and when that is working go on to B.
Is today “opposite day”?
President Calderon of Mexico scolds the US about the AZ Bill while being a guest at the White House! To top that off, Michael Posner, Asst Sec. of State “apologizes” to China for our human rights policy in AZ! China the leader in human rights violations, where baby girls are left dead in the street and protes…ters are shot! Something is wrong with this picture!
I left asking why this is being handled on the state or community level instead of at the border?!?` Anya
Arizona has asked the federal government to secure the border for years. This law was passed out of frustration with the federal government.
I do think Arizona has a PR issue. ` Anya
I agree. But I think the damage will be felt by the police and the Republican party. I think Republicans need more of the Hispanic vote to win. George W. Bush won because he got more of the Hispanic vote than usually goes to the Republicans. Arizona had a decent law that reduced the amount of illegals in the state. Why anger this critical voting block?
I don’t support the law. It’s too severe, requiring the police to ask for documents if they suspect someone is in AZ illegally. I think this sets the police up for all sorts of accusations and sets them against the Hispanic community. It’s unfair to the AZ police. It’s just a bad policy.
Having said that, the Obama Administration response is annoying. Please don’t be apologizing to China for me. Ask the Mexican president why his citizens are so anxious to NOT live/work in his country, instead. If I am unhappy with the US immigration policy, you can be sure I don’t care for Mexico’s which is ridiculously strict.
I heard Los Angeles is “boycotting” AZ. THAT is doubly ridiculous. I may not support the AZ law, but I love the state, and I support it’s right to pass poorly-crafted laws for itself. We can’t be boycotting each other like this. Tsk, tsk. What would Abraham Lincoln think?
as far as im concerned…illegal immigration started in 1492.- kathy
Not me. It would have been 18,000 years before that.
Can some one explain why we have to explain ourselves to China about whats going on in Arizona ? Aren’t they the country that has left female babies to die on the streets and that’s just the beginning? Or the Mexican President telling us how we should run our immigration policy from the White House lawn!
It may come as a surprise to you that the U.S. government occasionally weighs in on events in other countries, too. It’s not like we’re uniquely accountable. The president of Mexico has his opinion and he has a right to express it.
I do see control of the borders as a security issue, though I tend to think at least some of the hand-wringing over illegal immigration has more to do with white people feeling threatened about their future as a minority presence in some parts of the country. I totally agree with Sam here:
Its hard to fault someone for wanting something better for their family. Even harder to ship them back to where they came from, especially when children are involved.
I don’t think the majority of illegal immigrants are terrorists or drug dealers or just coming here to bleed social services dry; I think most are trying to improve their lots in life. Nevertheless, again, I do agree that border control is a security issue and we need to have some control over it.
That does not excuse what is pretty clearly to me a flawed law that in practice amounts to racial profiling. Arizona has a pretty dodgy history on racial issues; there was the refusal to adopt the holiday honoring MLK and more recently the ban on ethnic studies programs. Whatever problem they have with illegal immigration – and I understand that it’s severe – I agree that they also have “PR problem”, and its due to the actions of the state officials, past and present. They haven’t really earned the benefit of the doubt on this.
“We can do so if we create a safer border, a border that will unite us instead of dividing us, uniting our people,” Calderon said. “We can do so with a community that will promote a dignified life in an orderly way for both our countries.” This is what President Calderon of Mexico said at the White House! He should really concentrate on his own country! The corruption, crime, poverty, and human rights violations are the reason people are risking their lives to come to America. There is no “dignified life” for these people in Mexico. The only reason he wants them to stay here is so that they can keep sending money back to Mexico and help support the corrupt government there. The President of Mexico has a right to express an opinion but our President should stand up to him, just like Michael Posner should not have to explain or defend anything the US does to China. When other countries have the rights and freedoms (although not perfect) that we have in this country,then maybe the President should listen. For the time being he is not speaking for me.
As a born and bred Arizonan, I have a conflicted view on this subject. I no longer live there, but I try to keep up with politics in Tucson, where I was born and most of my family still lives. My great-grandmother was an illegal Mexican-Indian immigrant around the turn of the 20th century. My best friend came here with his mother and sister illegally because he was being recruited to run drugs at age 11, but she got married, and then he got his green card just shy of 18. Just today, AZ passed a proposition to raise the state sales tax 1% for education and law enforcement, because the state just can’t seem to get it right. I don’t think they’ll get it right with the immigration law either.
The law in AZ is really nothing more than a state law restating the federal immigration laws that have been around for a very long time. BUT, by bringing more attention to it, they are turning more to racial profiling than ever before. It’s unfair to people who are there legally, or just visiting, to be pulled over and asked for proof of citizenship (or legality) because they are darker skinned, or speak with an accent. My friend shouldn’t HAVE to carry around his green card when he goes back to AZ to see his Mom, but he will (mostly because he is a bit of a reckless driver, and gets pulled over a bit…).
Personally, I’m torn because I hate that we are paying for medical care and education for people who do not pay taxes, but I don’t think it should be as difficult as it is for a person to come to America if they want a better life for themself. If this is the land of freedom and opportunity, shouldn’t people have an easier time trying to make those dreams happen for themselves?
I’ll admit to having only scanned all of the previous responses. It isn’t often that I get to sound off on this subject.
It may come as a surprise to you that the U.S. government occasionally weighs in on events in other countries, too. It’s not like we’re uniquely accountable. The president of Mexico has his opinion and he has a right to express it.
There are very few Countries that have a right to criticize us on Human Rights Violations, especially China and Mexico. I don’t care what any Country says about us but our Govt. should have some balls and not be lectured by them, especially when they are GUESTS in our Country.
I do see control of the borders as a security issue, though I tend to think at least some of the hand-wringing over illegal immigration has more to do with white people feeling threatened about their future as a minority presence in some parts of the country.
Why is it that when we talk about other races it always returns to the scared white male. The issue just can’t be that Arizona is being over run by ILLEGALS who are ruining there state. I guess that would be too simple of a reason for the law. The Governor wrote many letters to the Federal Government and even spoke in person to President Obama asking for help. She got no responses or any help.
I totally agree with Sam here: Its hard to fault someone for wanting something better for their family. Even harder to ship them back to where they came from, especially when children are involved.
Just do it LEGAL
Personally I do not see this being an issue “with white people feeling threatened about their future as a minority presence in some parts of the country.” I think there are so many other things to worry about than that.
I certainly am not sitting at home and “hand-wringing” over illegal immigration. But I am concerned about our ability to care for the people that are in this country now. I am concerned about health care for our existing population. I am concerned about educating our children. I am concerned about my retirement and social security. Is that selfish? Sure. But I am just being honest. I am concerned. I am concerned for my own children’s future also.
I work and live in an area that is quite impacted by immigration – be it legal or illegal. I am a health care provider in an educational system in Los Angeles. One of my jobs is trying to secure health care for both legal and undocumented students and their families. The one thing that I strive to do is to always treat these families as if they were my own. But…. I still have concerns about our future. I feel like Samantha, I don’t have the answers but I do believe that we need to have a better plan.
Just today, AZ passed a proposition to raise the state sales tax 1% for education and law enforcement, because the state just can’t seem to get it right.
Tell me what State is getting anything right today. Have you seen the crap going on in Los Angeles and Ca. The amount of endless schemes they pass to raise tax.
It’s unfair to people who are there legally, or just visiting, to be pulled over and asked for proof of citizenship (or legality) because they are darker skinned, or speak with an accent. My friend shouldn’t HAVE to carry around his green card when he goes back to AZ to see his Mom, but he will (mostly because he is a bit of a reckless driver, and gets pulled over a bit…).
Why is it unfair?? Did you know that 16 States require you to carry legal I.D. and produce it anytime you are asked by Law Enforcement. Even while walking. How come those States don’t have a “Profiling” problem ? The constant ridiculing of the Police for not being able to control themselves. The way people have made it sound is that profiling will be out of control if the law is enacted. The law is very clear, more so than the Federal law….It is ILLEGAL to profile. Just think of the windfall the good Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Gloria Alred will have with this. It might keep them in the money for years to come !
Ann, I agree with all your points. And Pam, I think you express well the concerns of many who have empathy, but also see the costly impact of illegal immigration to those residing in California, Arizona and other border states. I too am annoyed at the city councils who can’t fix roads, deal with the homeless problem, or balance budgets, but jump at the first opportunity to boycott AZ. Whatever! Also, I don’t think we need China’s opinion on this – that is for sure.
MamaP says: The law in AZ is really nothing more than a state law restating the federal immigration laws that have been around for a very long time. BUT, by bringing more attention to it, they are turning more to racial profiling than ever before.
MamaP, I agree. And I don’t think it is hard to understand how someone with darker skin or an accent might feel threatened by the new law or may feel they are being singled out.
From what I understand, law enforcement only asks about immigration status if they have already stopped a person for another violation. I think this law was born out of frustration at the federal government’s lack of ability to secure the border. The drug wars in the border towns are becoming an increasing problem. Today, Mexico’s president has declared he is ready to do something about it. He’s about 10 years too late. If our president and Mexico’s president would get off their high horses and get serious about sending resources to fight this problem, laws like Arizona’s would not be necessary. This is not a “scared white people” isssue. This is a law abiding citizen issue. These drug wars are affecting innocent Mexicans as well as Americans. Have you seen how many people are killed in drug violence in Texas/Mexican border towns annually The vast majority of the victims are Mexican. I guarantee you that there would be equal frustration and outrage if there was this kind of violence and growing drug cartels on the Montana/Canadian border. These drug wars are a greater threat to our daily life than any Islamic extremist, and our country is burying our collective heads in the sand, if we continue to give only token attention to it.
The irony of the Mexican president’s outrage is breathtaking. Maybe he should re-examine how his country deals with illegal immigration from Central American countries…people who want to improve their lives. His country does not deal with them kindly.
I don’t really care to hear the Mexican president’s opinion on “uniting” our countries. Why shouldn’t he be perfectly content for our tax dollars to care for many of his citizens?….. While they often send much of the income they earn here right back to Mexico.
“Opposite Day #2″!
The Democrats give President Calderon a standing ovation! I would not believe this if I didn’t see it on the news just now. After bashing the US about our immigration policies and our drug problems, the Democrats give Calderon a standing ovation. Up is down, down is up. Is it just me or is anyone else wondering What the hell is going on here”?
Why is it unfair?? Did you know that 16 States require you to carry legal I.D. and produce it anytime you are asked by Law Enforcement. Even while walking. How come those States don’t have a “Profiling” problem ? The constant ridiculing of the Police for not being able to control themselves. The way people have made it sound is that profiling will be out of control if the law is enacted. The law is very clear, more so than the Federal law….It is ILLEGAL to profile. Just think of the windfall the good Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Gloria Alred will have with this. It might keep them in the money for years to come !
It’s unfair for him to have to show something other than his driver’s license. Yes, profiling is illegal, but if they pull over my mother, who has red hair and green eyes, they sure as heck better be asking for her proof of citizenship if they are going to be asking for his. But they won’t. That’s why it’s wrong.
From what I understand, law enforcement only asks about immigration status if they have already stopped a person for another violation.
Yes, that’s it exactly. But the issue is that in order for people to not feel as though they are being singled out, they have to ask the immigration status of every person pulled over for a crime. After all, there are illegal immigrants from other countries that don’t look like they have come across the southern border.
I’m not arguing that immigrants should be allowed to continue to come to the US illegally. I just think that this law is going to lead to discrimination and people who look a certain way are going to be singled out. Yes, profiling is illegal, but unless they are going to ask every potential criminal for proof of citizenship, that is what they are going to do.
Yes, people should immigrate here legally, but how easy is that for someone who can’t even afford to feed themself or their children? How easy is it for someone who has no job, and no transportation to go get the paperwork, fill it out, and wait for who knows how long while they have no food to eat, and no running water? It needs to be easier.
It’s unfair for him to have to show something other than his driver’s license. Yes, profiling is illegal, but if they pull over my mother, who has red hair and green eyes, they sure as heck better be asking for her proof of citizenship if they are going to be asking for his. But they won’t. That’s why it’s wrong.
Here we go again. Just like those who wanted the little old Swedish grandma stopped at the airports after 9-11. Please stop talking about the “Perfect World”. We don’t live in it nor is it possible. The vast amount of illegal’s are crossing our Southern Border, not into Minnesota. I’ll worry about that when those Manitobans are over running the country. The reason they are asking for “something other than a Drivers License” is that they do not have a Driver’s License! So not only are they here illegally, but they are driving illegally without insurance.
If you are allowed in this country you will be allowed to get a drivers license. Pulled over, no license, look Hispanic, 30 people in your Volkswagen …..BINGO !
How easy is it for someone who has no job, and no transportation to go get the paperwork, fill it out, and wait for who knows how long while they have no food to eat, and no running water? It needs to be easier..
This will come off cold but ….I don’t care. You need some skin in the game so it has value. I believe that with everything. These Presidents from other Countries need to take care of their Homelands so people won’t risk their lives to come here. As generous as this country is… at this point in time we are having a hard time taking care of ourselves.
I am all for people coming here legally so they can have a better life, like I did. If you want to not feel discriminated against or fearful go through the legal immigration channels.
Just like those who wanted the little old Swedish grandma stopped at the airports after 9-11.
Because white people never commit terrorist acts. Except for that guy who flew into the IRS building (0f course, plenty of conservatives supported him), and McVeigh, et al., and the Unibomber, etc. etc.
I am all for people coming here legally so they can have a better life, like I did. If you want to not feel discriminated against or fearful go through the legal immigration channels.
Except you still may get pulled over and harassed in Arizona if your skin is dark enough. Welcome to America!
It’s so funny when people are born on third base and honestly seem to believe they’ve hit a triple.
The Unabomber committed his acts on his own because he was angry about the rise of technology and he was also mentally ill.
In his Industrial Society and Its Future” (also called the “Unabomber Manifesto”), he argued that his bombings were extreme but necessary to attract attention to the erosion of human necessitated by modern technologies requiring large-scale organization.
Timothy McVeigh and the guy who crashed his plane into the IRS Building were angry and dangerous but they were not part of a larger group motivated by an extreme religious view that rewards terrorism and violence.
Does it mean that White people don’t commit crimes, of course not. Are there groups of young white men strapping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves up in the middle of a marketplace or train station or trying to get on a plane with a bomb in their underwear ,no. When the white men or the Swedish Grandmas are the ones committing these terrorists acts then they will be the ones given the higher scrutiny. Whether you like it or not Israel has yet to have a bomb on an El Al Plane because they are more concerned about the safety of their passengers then offending someone.
Jennie so nice for you to respond…..
Because white people never commit terrorist acts. Except for that guy who flew into the IRS building (0f course, plenty of conservatives supported him), and McVeigh, et al., and the Unibomber, etc. etc.
Yes we have “Homegrown Terrorists”. These are usually angry individuals. What’s your point?? I hope I don’t offend you …but that’s a disgusting statement about Conservatives. Do ALL Liberals commit arson when the Eco Terrorists burn down buildings, car dealerships and so on. Was it ALL Liberals who were part of Ayers group when they bombed and killed people. Such ignorance is unfathomable. Random acts by angry individuals is very different than organized groups sworn to our destruction in the name of extreme religion.
Except you still may get pulled over and harassed in Arizona if your skin is dark enough. Welcome to America!
It’s so funny when people are born on third base and honestly seem to believe they’ve hit a triple.
As always deteriorate a discussion and bring it back to the racist Americans. I guess we are just a horrible country that can’t do anything right. But they keep coming here any way they can.
I’m not sure about that last statement but I guess you are inferring that I’m white. Enough said.
How anyone can argue that illegal immigration is good for any country is beyond me. Let’s assume that Canada became the Mecca of countries and the US became Mexico. Would anyone in the US argue that a flood of Americans entering Canada illegally should be tolerated by the Canadians? I think not. Every part of the argument for curtailing illegal immigration in this country (safety, economic, fairness) is easily defensible. Arguing against policy is not racism. I am against almost every decision that Obama has made. I am not a racist. I was against every policy Jimmy Carter made. Am I automatically anti.. what peanut farmer, Georgian? I am against illegal immigration for the reasons I stated above; safety, economic and fairness. I live in Los Angeles. 30% of African-American males are unemployed in this city and every time I talk to one of them they mention the influx of Mexican illegals that are working construction for under the table wages. I don’t consider racism is a factor in that anger. I am all for the following:
First. Seal the borders.
Second. Deport all illegal criminals
Third. Create a way to keep the high achieving illegals already in this country and make them earn citizenship but give them a way to obtain it.
Fourth. Punish any employer who knowingly hires illegals. I constantly check all of my employees papers and still can’t tell if they are legal. The fake paperwork business here in Los Angeles is well-run and profitable.
I also want to ban any incoming traffic (work visas, school visas, travel visas, etc) from any country that has had any terrorist activity against the US. It would include Iran, Yemin, Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. That is not racist, it’s smart. But that’s for another blog subject.
“First. Seal the borders.
Second. Deport all illegal criminals
Third. Create a way to keep the high achieving illegals already in this country and make them earn citizenship but give them a way to obtain it.
Fourth. Punish any employer who knowingly hires illegals. I constantly check all of my employees papers and still can’t tell if they are legal. The fake paperwork business here in Los Angeles is well-run and profitable.”
Jeff,
Why don’t you run for office in Los Angeles? So far you make more sense than any of the idiots on our City Council. I agree with everything you said. Especially the deporting of all “illegal criminals” you did not say deport “families” or “hard working illegals” or “children” you said “criminals”. The costs of illegals in our CA prisons is estimated to be around $10.5 Billion! This is money that could be used for education, for infrastructure, for health care and to reduce taxes.
Can we just use some common sense?
As always deteriorate a discussion and bring it back to the racist Americans. I guess we are just a horrible country that can’t do anything right. But they keep coming here any way they can.
I’m not sure about that last statement but I guess you are inferring that I’m white. Enough said.
I’m not sure how you got that from what I said. Maybe you don’t understand the reference. I never said the US was a “horrible country” – on the contrary, you’re the one who seems to believe that we are doomed, doomed I tell you!
The “born on third base” has nothing to do with being white – you are extremely lucky to be born into a first world country and have the opportunity to come to another first world country and presumably have some success. Try going to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ and putting your income in and seeing how very lucky you are. Then you may count your blessings instead of frothing at the mouth constantly at the idea that someone, somewhere is trying to get a little of what you have.
Then you may count your blessings instead of frothing at the mouth constantly at the idea that someone, somewhere is trying to get a little of what you have
I know we all feel strongly, one way or the other about this issue. To be fair, I don’t think any of us discussing here begrudge any one building a good life for themselves- but there is nothing wrong or selfish about expecting it to be done in a legal way- that doesn’t cost our country obscene amounts of money every year.
On a side note, I heard a number this morning that is amazing. Illegal immigrants (specifically from Mexico) send somewhere in the ball park of 21 billion dollars (earned from American jobs) back to Mexico’s economy each year. Again, should we be confused as to the Mexican President’s real motives behind his “speech”?
I know we all feel strongly, one way or the other about this issue. To be fair, I don’t think any of us discussing here begrudge any one building a good life for themselves- but there is nothing wrong or selfish about expecting it to be done in a legal way- that doesn’t cost our country obscene amounts of money every year.
Yeah, I absolutely don’t begrudge anyone building a good life for themselves – but I also think we should have perspective about blessed we are. We won the lottery just by being born here. I don’t know what I’d do if I were a poor person in Mexico. I think my views on legality might be different.
On a side note, I heard a number this morning that is amazing. Illegal immigrants (specifically from Mexico) send somewhere in the ball park of 21 billion dollars (earned from American jobs) back to Mexico’s economy each year. Again, should we be confused as to the Mexican President’s real motives behind his “speech”?
That’s interesting. I wonder how much money we’d lose if the borders were sealed? I mean, obviously there would be savings as well, but presumably those illegal immigrants do spend some money on goods and services here. (Just thinking out loud, not saying that cessation of illegal immigration would be a negative thing for the US, financially.)
I wonder how much money we’d lose if the borders were sealed?
I would be very interested to see that! I would love to know what we would save vs. what we would lose.
Jennie,
Your need to be right obviously is more important to you than having a civil discussion. I guarantee you that no one is ” frothing at the mouth constantly at the idea that someone, somewhere is trying to get a little of what you have”, especially Stu. If you were really paying attention you would see that people are sympathetic to the illegal immigrants and feel badly about their horrible lives in Mexico and other countries. They are also aware that President Calderon is doing nothing to help his people and only wants them to stay in the US so that they can send money back to Mexico. The fact that you keep referring to it as a “white” issue just shows that you are the racist! It is not racism but reality that is causing people to be so upset. Playing the “race card” is usually what people do when they build their arguments on emotion, rather than facts.
Just a friendly reminder- let’s try to keep it respectful, on all sides. Its easy for everyone to make assumptions about each other, that more often than not- aren’t true, I don’t think any of us are that simple or transparent. The discussion so far has gone well, let’s try to keep it that way.
The “born on third base” has nothing to do with being white – you are extremely lucky to be born into a first world country and have the opportunity to come to another first world country and presumably have some success
Wildly assumptive. Like many statements you have made in the past mixed in with some facts. I thank my lucky stars every day for being brought to this Country. Maybe you carry a little guilt for being so very fortunate to be born here.
By the way the money thing, I am in the .oo69% of the richest in the world. Hooray !! I guess I would feel that way if I lived in Niger.
What’s interesting about the Mexican Gov’t is that they “Tax” all that money being sent back home, so I guess the Mexican President has reason to keep the flow of illegals coming this way.
Then you may count your blessings instead of frothing at the mouth constantly at the idea that someone, somewhere is trying to get a little of what you have
Well here you go with those wildly assumptive ideas floating around in your head. At least you haven’t taken your ball and run home with it.
Your need to be right obviously is more important to you than having a civil discussion. I guarantee you that no one is ” frothing at the mouth constantly at the idea that someone, somewhere is trying to get a little of what you have”, especially Stu. If you were really paying attention you would see that people are sympathetic to the illegal immigrants and feel badly about their horrible lives in Mexico and other countries.
Really? How about this:
Mama P: How easy is it for someone who has no job, and no transportation to go get the paperwork, fill it out, and wait for who knows how long while they have no food to eat, and no running water? It needs to be easier..
Stu: This will come off cold but ….I don’t care.
They are also aware that President Calderon is doing nothing to help his people and only wants them to stay in the US so that they can send money back to Mexico.
I don’t pretend to have a direct line to what President Calderon is thinking as you apparently do, so I’ll defer to you on that. However, that really has nothing to do with whether the Arizona law is unjust or not.
The fact that you keep referring to it as a “white” issue just shows that you are the racist!
I don’t think I “keep referring” to it as a “white issue” – I brought up my belief that some people (in the west and southwest, probably primarily) have anxiety about the idea of whites being an ethnic minority in the future, and I do still think that’s an issue with some people. It’s an understandable issue in my mind; I can see why it would cause anxiety and discomfort.
I also brought up examples of white terrorists to counter the notion that racial profiling is a good idea. I stand by that. Wait until the day you get your way and only Middle Eastern people get extra screening at airports, and see how quickly Al Qaeda finds a white convert to Islam to carry a bomb onto a plane. Sheesh, I remember a case from more than 20 years ago where an Middle Eastern man sent his (pregnant!) Irish girlfriend onto a plane with a bomb in her bags (unbeknownst to her). Do pregnant Irishwomen get a pass from you, along with Swedish grandmothers?
I’m not sure why I’m being called a racist but feel free to enlighten me.
It is not racism but reality that is causing people to be so upset. Playing the “race card” is usually what people do when they build their arguments on emotion, rather than facts.
Again, not playing any race card, nor do I feel I’m building any argument on emotions. I will say that you seem awfully quick to assume that people are calling you racist. Is it safe to assume this happens to you a lot?
Is it safe to assume this happens to you a lot?
Actually Jennie, it is not safe to say this happens to me alot, actually it has never happened to me! You are just full of assumptions about people who disagree with your ideology. I think Jeff got it right when he said:
Arguing against policy is not racism. I am against almost every decision that Obama has made. I am not a racist. I was against every policy Jimmy Carter made. Am I automatically anti.. what peanut farmer, Georgian?
You probably assumehe gets called a racist alot too! Of course knowing him that is not something that would ever happen to him either!
Wildly assumptive. Like many statements you have made in the past mixed in with some facts. I thank my lucky stars every day for being brought to this Country. Maybe you carry a little guilt for being so very fortunate to be born here.
Not guilt – just a recognition of my luck and compassion for those who haven’t been as fortunate. I also try to recognize that others trying to better themselves does not have to be a threat or an insult to me (even if my taxes end up paying for it – heaven knows they are going for other things I disapprove of!).
By the way the money thing, I am in the .oo69% of the richest in the world. Hooray !! I guess I would feel that way if I lived in Niger.
I’m sorry? What does Niger have to do with it?
What’s interesting about the Mexican Gov’t is that they “Tax” all that money being sent back home, so I guess the Mexican President has reason to keep the flow of illegals coming this way.
Maybe. I try to worry more about what my own country is doing.
BTW, I saw today that the U.S. criticized North Korea regarding sinking the South Korean ship. I guess it’s safe to assume you disapprove of U.S. interference since governments shouldn’t be telling other governments what to do when they aren’t involved in the matter?
Well here you go with those wildly assumptive ideas floating around in your head. At least you haven’t taken your ball and run home with it.
Sorry, as with the “Niger” reference, I’m not sure what you mean here. Perhaps it’s an ESL issue.
You probably assumehe gets called a racist alot too! Of course knowing him that is not something that would ever happen to him either!
Jimmy Carter? I doubt it. I haven’t called anyone racist here. It was you who did that.
FYI, many people call Jimmy Carter racist and anti-semitic but that’s a different discussion! Of course I was talking about Jeff, but you knew that!
According to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, kidnapping in Arizona increased 402 percent between 2004 and 2008, with almost 70 percent of the kidnapping cases submitted for prosecution involving illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants account for 16.5 percent of those sentenced for violent crimes; 18.5 percent of those sentenced for property crimes; 33.5 percent of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale, or transport of drugs; and 44.4 percent of those sentenced or forgery and fraud in the Phoenix area. And, according to DOJ statistics, three Border Patrol agents are assaulted on the average day at or near the U.S. border. Someone is kidnapped every 35 hours in Phoenix, Ariz. — mostly by agents of alien-smuggling organizations.
I found this information on another site and I am not sure how accurate it is but it does cause me to step back and have a better understanding of why Arizona passed this law.
Are there any thoughts on what Arizona can do to address this situation other than the Immigration Law that was passed?
I have a completely different take on this. I find this to be a very quiet way of eroding the constitutional rights of Americans. Under Bush we had our rights eroded and now the GOP of Arizona has successfully gone a step further. They have very quietly made it possible that all Americans will have to carry their “papers” to prove citizenship at all times in that state. Ease of movement is no longer available in Arizona. I think they used the immigration problem to cause a stir elsewhere kind of like, “look over there, don’t look behind the curtain” type of thing. Let’s not forget the same thing happened in Germany. First they get everyone all riled up about the Jews and then they went after their own citizens. Their own citizens opened this door by letting the government practice on another group.
I think the President of Mexico has some valid points. Our lax of gun control and manufactoring of assault weapons has made them available in Mexico.
I also agree with the Fraternal Order of Police (or something) who is concerned about the welfare of the police and the extra liability put on them.
I don’t understand why this wasn’t brought up under Bush, perhaps because big business is not keen on actually keeping illegal workers out. If they were, they could easily raise the stakes for employers. Jail anyone who hires illegals and see how quickly things turn around. Another way illegals work here is by starting coops. It is not illegal for business owners to work without papers so coops are an easy way to allow illegals to work.
I live in Michigan and so we have Canada about 10 minutes away. Under Clinton, while the economy was booming we had Canadians crossing and working. Now that our economy stinks and Canada is one of the few countries around the world that has not been impacted, I can see this happening in reverse. Boarder crossing is not unique to Arizona/Mexico. I really don’t think this law has anything to do with the problem since no other ideology was instituted to help with the problem.
Oh I forgot to mention drug use. America’s demand of drugs causes drug flow up and our guns are flowing down. That must account for something.
I live in Southern California. I was raised in Wisconsin and frequently travel there.
You can not compare border crossing between Canada and Michigan and Mexico and Arizona/California.
I don’t pretend to have a direct line to what President Calderon is thinking as you apparently do, so I’ll defer to you on that. However, that really has nothing to do with whether the Arizona law is unjust or not.
So it being a replication of the Federal Law is not enough for you…..By the way just using Calderon’s words, pretty simple.
I also brought up examples of white terrorists to counter the notion that racial profiling is a good idea. I stand by that. Wait until the day you get your way and only Middle Eastern people get extra screening at airports, and see how quickly Al Qaeda finds a white convert to Islam to carry a bomb onto a plane. Sheesh, I remember a case from more than 20 years ago where an Middle Eastern man sent his (pregnant!) Irish girlfriend onto a plane with a bomb in her bags (unbeknownst to her). Do pregnant Irishwomen get a pass from you, along with Swedish grandmothers?
The logic still is to increase scrutiny of the type of people who are breaking your laws or who are trying to kill you. Not to stop looking at EVERYONE. It’s funny how you don’t even realize you bolster my argument by pointing out the nice Irish girlfriend was 20 YEARS ago.
Again, not playing any race card, nor do I feel I’m building any argument on emotions. I will say that you seem awfully quick to assume that people are calling you racist. Is it safe to assume this happens to you a lot?
I’ve only brought up race when it is referred to in an argument. It does seem though that Liberals seem to bring that up quite often.
What does Niger have to do with it?
Me being able to live in a country that strives to have a better standard of living can’t be compared to the rest of the world and what they do or don’t do. We give money , food , supplies to so many less fortunate than us.
Maybe. I try to worry more about what my own country is doing.
That’s what this whole discussion was started for. Please pay attention.
BTW, I saw today that the U.S. criticized North Korea regarding sinking the South Korean ship. I guess it’s safe to assume you disapprove of U.S. interference since governments shouldn’t be telling other governments what to do when they aren’t involved in the matter?
Wildly assumptive once again. You seem to do that quite often. I guess the N Koreans are coming over the border now. I must have missed the lecture the N Korean Dictator gave to Congress.
Sorry, as with the “Niger” reference, I’m not sure what you mean here. Perhaps it’s an ESL issue.
I understand…you must have a very short memory. By the way I won’t get into this remarkable comment other than to say we never had ESL when I was in school.
I have a completely different take on this. I find this to be a very quiet way of eroding the constitutional rights of Americans. Under Bush we had our rights eroded and now the GOP of Arizona has successfully gone a step further. They have very quietly made it possible that all Americans will have to carry their “papers” to prove citizenship at all times in that state. Ease of movement is no longer available in Arizona. I think they used the immigration problem to cause a stir elsewhere kind of like, “look over there, don’t look behind the curtain” type of thing. Let’s not forget the same thing happened in Germany. First they get everyone all riled up about the Jews and then they went after their own citizens. Their own citizens opened this door by letting the government practice on another group.
Just stunning. We are still blaming Bush. Are you kidding. Do you know that almost all of the so called erosion’s are still being implemented by Obama? What erosion ??? What freedom of movement ?? Republicans?? 70 % of the people of Arizona support the bill. Almost every poll done on this subject shows that. THIS IS NOTHING LIKE GERMANY. That is one of the most irresponsible and ignorant statements made in this thread.
I think the President of Mexico has some valid points. Our lax of gun control and manufactoring of assault weapons has made them available in Mexico.
The President of Mexico needs to worry about his country not ours. The gun issue would not be the problem it is if we had a secure border. Wouldn’t be an issue if his law enforcement and Gov’t wasn’t corrupt.
I don’t understand why this wasn’t brought up under Bush
If you paid attention during the eight years of Bush and just not drank the Kool Aide you would have seen the uproar that was made because Bush wanted to put forth an amnesty bill.
Under Clinton, while the economy was booming we had Canadians crossing and working.
I guess they were coming here by the 10′s and 20′s. If we could reduce the flow to that number, I am sure no one would be talking about it.
Just remember Reagan granted amnesty and here we are today …worse off.
Stu is right. I was appalled when Bush and McCain wanted to introduce their amnesty solution. I am all for people bettering their lives. Most of us have ancestors that immigrated to this country for a better life. Our government has changed, since then. Being a citizen in 1900 did not automatically give you access to a host of social services. Our government is becoming our caretakers—cradle to grave. We have evidence in Greece and other European countries, how well that is working. If you take away the denfense budget , fraud, and waste, it doesn’t make a dent in the deficit caused by entitlements. We have to make some tough decisions about our system, the way it is, before we open the borders and say ya’ll come. It is currently unstustainable. Look at California.
By the way, before anyone thinks I’m heartless…I would be more than willing to see the age I can draw Social Security be raised. I would be will to pay a little more in taxes if it means my children won’t be paying a lot more in the future. We aren’t thinking about our kids at all.
Ease of movement is no longer available in Arizona
I would say its ease of illegal movement that won’t be so easy.
As far as comparing it to Germany, that seems like a gross overstatement. And even that is putting it mildly. Why is it so hard to believe that Arizona residents are just fed up with the situation? Its been mentioned before but there is something to be said for the fact that 70% are for it. They live there, they actually have a dog in this fight- they have to deal with it and they have to pay for it.
Jennie,
I think the Mexican President lecturing the US on its immigration policy is so frustrating because his countryman are leaving his country in droves for ours and causing a problem for our border states in the process. He should not lecture us. He should be helping us by working to improve the economic opportunities in Mexico.
Every country should denounce what No. Korea did in sinking the So. Korean sub. The Obama administration is right about doing so. I think you agree.
So the problem isn’t that countries may never lecture other countries. No one here said that. It is that this particular president (Mexican) should not lecture the US on this particular issue (illegal immigration) since his own record on this very problem is abysmal. Also, he treats illegals in Mexico far harsher than the US does. He is a hypocrite.
I think this law is a bad move for AZ, still. I think it’s going to cause more of a headache than it was worth. AZ had already successfully reduced the flow of illegals into the state. The status quo was working.
Also, he treats illegals in Mexico far harsher than the US does.
We know a family who was there (legally) bc the husband had been transferred there by his company. They said that as far as “racial profiling” goes the Mexican police are pros. They rarely went anywhere without being stopped and having their car searched- apparently this was a normal occurrence. You can bet “papers” were demanded. The president of Mexico needs a lecture on hypocrisy.
Wendy says: By the way, before anyone thinks I’m heartless…I would be more than willing to see the age I can draw Social Security be raised. I would be will to pay a little more in taxes if it means my children won’t be paying a lot more in the future. We aren’t thinking about our kids at all.
I agree, Wendy. It’s off-topic, but I saw an article the other day that suggested raising the annual % that is contributed from (6.2%?) would be the most effective way of dealing with the SS shortfall. There is also a cap in place that could perhaps be raised. I know nobody likes their taxes being raised, but I think we need to be realistic and I agree that we should not just hand this problem off to the next generation.
Pam@IW: I found this information on another site and I am not sure how accurate it is but it does cause me to step back and have a better understanding of why Arizona passed this law.
Are there any thoughts on what Arizona can do to address this situation other than the Immigration Law that was passed?
I have read about some of the things you make reference to. There does seem to be an active criminal element present in smuggling illegals into AZ. I think this raises concerns completely different from some of our discussions that mainly have to do with – ’how are we going to pay for all this?’
I don’t pretend to have the answers. I am not comfortable with elements of the AZ law, but I also am not living in an AZ border town. I try and remember that…..
How will you tell the Americans from the illegals? Mexican people are indigenous to Arizona since the area was taken by the US. There are Mexican-American who have been here for hundreds of years, generations of families. Is it ok they must carry papers on them every time they step out of the house? Once this law is in place, all Americans will be vulnerable. Like I said the law does not increase penalties for employers at all. Cut off the work. Just makes sense.
Those that think the example of Germany is an ignorant statement. Nice by the way. Should take a look at this link:
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob60.html
Stu you actually reinforced my statement. Yes Bush pulled some of our liberties by the Patriot Act, wire tapping citizens etc. Once laws are on the books it is very hard to remove them. Take a look at the link that will reinforce that ideal even more.
How will you tell the Americans from the illegals? -trixie
I think that is the point of asking for papers.
Again, the point needs to be made that the only reason people are stopped has to do with their “appearance”—their “appearance” to be committing a crime! The documentation is asked for after that fact.
Again, the point needs to be made that the only reason people are stopped has to do with their “appearance”— Wendy
“Appearance” and “behavior”? Couldn’t they be stopped for their behavior as well? That would not involve racial profiling. However, I do think your point is strong, Wendy.
Personally, I think this debate is why it’s such a stupid law. I think it will put the AZ police at odds with the legal Hispanic community in AZ, even if they do not use racial profiling. The law requires the police to ask for documents if there is any suspicion. Suspicion will include appearance along with behavior and that will feel like unfair harassment to legal Mexican-Americans.
Trixie,
I would like to address your least offensive statements first. The AZ Immigration Law is the same law that the Federal Gov’t has on their books except with one addition:
Arizona HB 2162
On April 30, the Arizona legislature passed, and Governor Brewer signed, House Bill 2162, which modified the law that had been signed a week earlier, with the amended text stating that “prosecutors would not investigate complaints based on race, color or national origin.”The new text also states that police may only investigate immigration status incident to a “lawful stop, detention, or arrest”, lowers the original fine from a minimum of $500 to a maximum of $100, and changes incarceration limits from 6 months to 20 days for first-time offenders.
This was added to the AZ Bill to protect anyone from being stopped based solely on their race. Do you believe the Federal Gov’t is racist, same law without the amendment, which adds more protection. Do you believe the police will preform their jobs illegally? Do you think the police would risk being sued, fired, or thrown in jail? The law is quite clear.
In regards to the Patriot Act and blaming President Bush, President Obama was the one who , on a late Sat. night, would not let the Patriot Act expire! He signed to extend the provisions of the Patriot Act including wiretapping (those civil liberties he so wanted to “protect” when he ran for office) this has nothing to do with former President Bush!
Lastly, your German reference is: I don’t even know where to begin. It’s either outrageous ignorance of World history, or a disdain for America to equate this AZ Immigration law with the purpose of the Nazi leaning German Gov’t to rid itself (as in exterminate) a whole race of people. The intent of the law you quoted was to exterminate Jews and many others. If you think that is the intent behind the AZ Law or the start to that ,than this is frightening!
I apologize to the writers on this board for my ANGER but statements that equate an American Law with Hitler’s Germany cannot go unchallenged.
I apologize to the writers on this board for my ANGER but statements that equate an American Law with Hitler’s Germany cannot go unchallenged. -Stu
I don’t think you need to apologize about that, Stu. IMO your anger is justified on this point. Thank you for responding.
I would have to say ones own ideology doesn’t equate to being Racist. That’s why this Country and other Countries like the USA are so great because we can have freedom to express ourselves without being prosecuted by our thought process. I think it’s absurd to think Arizona’s new Immigration Law can and will be equal to Nazi Germany. I don’t think the average American person would accept that and will ever let that happen again on US soil. This Country has a problem with our Southern Border and steps need to be taken place so everyone who’s here can be safe and secure from threats from the outside World (Terrorist) who are trying to take away the Freedoms and Liberties we have today.
Shouldn’t President Calderon be THANKING us instead of lecturing us – we take his tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to be free, most of whom make a life for themselves……we also take his gang members, drug pushers and smugglers……..I have to say that as shocking as Calderon’s lecture was, the standing ovation he got really put me over the edge. Things are upside down. What’s next?
<b>Illegal immigrants account for 16.5 percent of those sentenced for violent crimes; 18.5 percent of those sentenced for property crimes; 33.5 percent of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale, or transport of drugs; and 44.4 percent of those sentenced or forgery and fraud in the Phoenix area</b>
So that means that 83.5% of violent crimes are committed by citizens, 81.5% of property crimes are committed by citizens, 66.5% of drug crimes are committed by citizens, and 55.6% of forgery and fraud are committed, again, by citizens.
Seems like we’re worrying about the wrong people.
Susanp,
I read your post and was amazed by your statement “seems like we’re worrying about the wrong people”. I guess you think these numbers are not a big deal. It’s a big deal here in CA where our state is in the worst financial crisis in it’s history, where in Los Angeles County, where I live we are being taxed 10.5% sales tax, where as business owners, every where we turn is a new tax!
Sacramento – Assemblyman Dan Logue, (R-Marysville), today announced that he has signed on to co-author Senate Bill 125. Legislation to apply needed pressure on the Federal Government to compensate the State of California for the full costs of incarcerating illegal immigrants in California prisons.
Illegal immigrants comprise 15% of California’s prison population, with each inmate costing and estimated $35,587 per year. For the 2008-2009 fiscal year, housing illegal immigrant prisoners cost the State of California almost $800 million.
I resent having our state give up $800 million to cover imprisoning illegal aliens. This is money that could be used for schools, for infrastructure, for helping with health care and medical needs of poor citizens etc. We are forced to enforce and pay for laws that the Federal Gov’t refuses to help with. In fact today the head of ICE said his Dept will not enforce the AZ law!
Well – at least they admit it. According to the Chicago Tribune, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), John Morton, said “his agency will not necessarily process illegal immigrants referred to them [sic] by Arizona officials.” This guy should be fired on the spot, his job is to enforce the law, not give an opinion on it!
I would expect that the people who come here illegally would be held to the highest standard of behavior. To come here and work to better your life for you and your children is one thing.
To come here and commit crimes and violence is absolutely unacceptable, no matter what the numbers or percentages are. How would you feel if you or someone you knew was a victim of one of those criminals! I guarantee you commit a crime in Mexico and they are not spending $35,000 a year on you!
SusanP,
I am for a modified amnesty bill and an overhaul of our immigration laws to permit far more immigrants from developing nations into our country. I’m a bit of a bleeding heart liberal on this issue, even if it means 10% sales tax nationwide.
Having said that, your statistics do not help present your case very well. 16% of violent crimes is appalling. How many victims would have been spared death or trauma if the federal government had enforced the AZ border? Why should even 1% of violent crimes be attributed to someone who should not even be here by law? Appalling.
Please Ann – no additional tax ideas. Our federal, state, and city governments are already gouging us, and seem to get giddy at the mere prospect of more “revenue” for themselves. They don’t handle the taxes that we already pay in to the system – as this whole discussion demonstrates – Arizona gets no help in trying to protect it’s citizens. I am still smoking angry about the standing ovation that President Calderon got from some in the president’s cabinet. Also appalling.
I didn’t realize the violent/drug/forgery crimes were so high in Phoenix…….I feel more for that state than I did yesterday. If a country/state can’t protect it’s own citizens (or doesn’t feel the need) then we’re all in serious trouble.
A side note about Tax. Which I agree …NO MORE TAX’S….I went to traffic court for a ticket and the court was gracious enough to waive a majority of the penalties. I left the court with my fine of $180. Then when I went to pay it at the cashiers window ..it jumped to $570. Why…. not tax’s because you need voter approval for that…..Fee’s and assessments. I pay way to much now for all of our broken systems and now Health Care will be added with no benefit till 2014. I pay enough !!
Rose,
I am applying the preferential treatment of the poor when I mention taxes. I don’t actually want more taxes, I want to see America open her borders legally to the poor more than she has. If that means a 10% tax, so be it. I doubt it would be necessary, though.
<
View this 3 minute video done by a news station, then argue we don't need secure borders.
Thanks Stu, for the video. Very scary stuff!!
That video should be a real ” wake up call” for anyone who thinks securing the Border is no big deal! I had no idea that so many people from countries that support terrorism and the destruction of the U.S. were coming in through those borders. Very alarming and very scary especially when you have Janet Napolitano in charge of Homeland Security for the Country!
Ann – I understand preferential treatment of the poor, but don’t make the connection between that and taxes. The government seldom handles taxes well – so an increased sales tax might not go to preferential treatment of the poor.
I really can’t weigh in because I haven’t read the law, I don’t live with the problem of illegal immigration on my doorstep as some of those in Arizona, and I don’t want to judge those that do. Neither do I want to judge illegal immigrants, I don’t know for sure their reasons for coming here. I do understand legal immigrants upset with the fact that all immigrants should go through the same proper channels they went through to get citizenship, but that’s another thing I can’t talk about with any real experience, I’ve been fortunate to have been born in this country, I’ve never had to ‘jump through hoops’ to attain citizenship, so I won’t be making any proclamations on that subject either.
I am friendly with one of the teachers at a nearby school who is Irish (her parents were immigrants), she had a boyfriend that lived in England, any time she went to visit him in his country, she was pulled off the lines in the airport, her luggage was searched, she was searched (many times strip-searched) and questioned at length. I see nothing wrong with that, and neither did she. It was definitely racial profiling. It works. I don’t think it’s always wrong to do racial profiling. I don’t think it’s always right to try and be ‘politically correct’. I don’t look at racial profiling as dirty words. My teacher friend didn’t blame the authorities for ‘profiling’ her, she blamed the Irish terrorist bombers for this gross degradation and inconvenience.
Wake up people!
This is the next bit of “brilliance” from our Congress! Trying to make us all equal, meaning there would be no difference between American citizens and illegal immigrants. We would have to be treated as if we were the illegals! What happened to our rights? If this isn’t Big Brother, I don’t know what it! I never side with the ACLU on anything but the are correct in saying this is an abuse of the privacy laws and a very scary thing.
Democrat Chuck Schumer and Republican Lindsey Graham have joined forces in an effort to force a biometric ID on the American people. The new national ID scheme is part of a comprehensive immigration bill now in the Senate.
Schumer and Graham want every American worker required to have a biometric ID card in order to work. “Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker,” reports The Wall Street Journal.
Holly, isn’t this similar to what was just scrapped in Great Britian?
I personally don’t see this proposal going very far. As you mentioned, the ACLU is against it, but so is the Cato Institute.
I don’t see the political points to be scored in an election year with this idea. I predict it will die a quiet death.
I do not see anything wrong with the new law that has been implemented in Arizona. People who are in our country illegally have no right to be here. Why can’t they make the effort to become legal citizens by applying for proper documentation through U.S. Customs? I live in southern California and I really wish our state would pass a similiar law.
Adam,
California sucks. Our state and local polishitians are out of control. I live here too. Our wonderful state senators who belong to the Hispanic coalition …about 20 of these low life polishitians are trying to block the sale of the Orange County Fair Grounds to the city of Costa Mesa as a punishment for saying they are a city that will enforce the laws of their city.
For much of the past year, the Costa Mesa City Council has been focused on its dual goals of blocking development at the Orange County Fairgrounds and obstructing illegal immigration.
Its recent efforts on illegal immigration, however, may now have endangered the future of the fairgrounds.
This month, Costa Mesa officials announced they had selected a private firm that they hope will ultimately join the city in buying the fairgrounds from the state.
Such a transaction would require approval from the state Legislature, but some Latino lawmakers are now threatening to block it after the City Council last week declared Costa Mesa a “Rule of Law City” where people who are in this country illegally are not welcome.
“The city government of Costa Mesa should not think that they can act with immunity as it relates to these matters,” said State Sen. Gilbert Cedillo, D-Los Angeles , chairman of the California Latino Legislative Caucus. “We don’t support that. We don’t sanction that…”
We are BROKE. All these guys can do is deflect how lame they are from the real issues of this state. Throw them ALL out of office.
Why can’t they make the effort to become legal citizens by applying for proper documentation through U.S. Customs?
US Customs?
California sucks.
Wow, you really seem to hate it here. I’m surprised you haven’t gone home to Germany.
Wow, you really seem to hate it here. I’m surprised you haven’t gone home to Germany.
Glad to see you were waiting for your spot to try and deliver a low blow. Just to let you know I LOVE THIS COUNTRY. I hate what the polishitians are doing to it. Unlike you I think both parties are responsible. It sounds like the more you post here it becomes quit obvious your intellect seems to block your common sense.
I don’t know where you live ( nor do I care ) but California and in particular Los Angeles are falling apart. In large part to the Illegal problem, Unions in bed with our elected officials, and taxing us to death. There is a lot to be angry about when it comes to these issues.
I agree there are things to be angry and upset about and passion is a wonderful thing, but I also think it’s good to stop, breath, and take a moment to reflect on all the things we have to be grateful for – both as Californians and Americans.
I live in a city that comes up with a lot of ridiculous policies too (similar to Costa Mesa). Some of them make me angry and I consider them not in our city’s best interest, but on a day-to-day basis, life is pretty ok here when I compare it to so many other places.
JMO.
Anya aka Pollyanna
your neighbor in northern California
I love the Pollyyana….it’s a great trait to have !
My concern with your post if I am reading it right…..
I live in a city that comes up with a lot of ridiculous policies too (similar to Costa Mesa).
I don’t think Costa Mesa is in the wrong at all. When does a city have a target on its back when they up hold the law? If I read it wrong I apologize in advance.
Glad to see you were waiting for your spot to try and deliver a low blow.
Oh, for heaven’s sake – talk about being able to dish it out but not being able to take it. You’ve consistently made this personal and indulged in ad hominem attacks. I don’t see why it is such a ”low blow” to suggest that someone who comes to this country and finds so much to complain about and criticize, and who is so angry and negative about it find one he likes better. Saudi Arabia and North Korea seem like a good fit.
Just to let you know I LOVE THIS COUNTRY. I hate what the polishitians are doing to it. Unlike you I think both parties are responsible.
How in the world would you know who I think is responsible? I’ve never said that the blame belongs solely to Republicans. Your love is hard to perceive through the constant mouth-frothing over every issue.
BTW, the word is “politicians.” Please spare us your vulgar and childish attempts at witticisms.
It sounds like the more you post here it becomes quit obvious your intellect seems to block your common sense.
Dude, I “post here” every day. In all threads. You, on the other hand, come along occasionally, yell at people, post your doctrinaire line, and then leave. You know zilch about me and my intellect or common sense so I don’t know why you seem to feel the need to pretend you do.
I don’t know where you live ( nor do I care ) but California and in particular Los Angeles are falling apart. In large part to the Illegal problem, Unions in bed with our elected officials, and taxing us to death. There is a lot to be angry about when it comes to these issues.
Yes, yes, I’ve heard it – the sky is falling, boo hoo. I haven’t heard much in the way of solutions. Except to “throw the bums out.” And replace them with…who exactly? No one? I would not have figured you for an anarchist, but unlike you I do not pretend to know total strangers.
Oh, for heaven’s sake – talk about being able to dish it out but not being able to take it.
I’m glad to hear your comments. As I said previously your intelligence is blocking your common sense. It’s funny how you don’t complain or show your negative side at all. FYI I’ve been as long as you if not longer. You find it very easy to tell me to go back to Germany, Saudi Arabia, or N. Korea but you have a hard time telling illegals to go home.
How in the world would you know who I think is responsible? I’ve never said that the blame belongs solely to Republicans. Your love is hard to perceive through the constant mouth-frothing over every issue.
It’s very easy to form opinions on people from their writings …it’s done all the time. Just the way you have of me. My anger equates into not loving my Country ? That’s a very warped way of perceiving what I am saying. I want us to bring our Country back to less Government and more control of the everyday citizen. Those are reasons you want me to go back ?? Strange.
Dude, I “post here” every day. In all threads.
Dude…that’s cute. As per your suggestion maybe I’ll start posting in the ” Gosselins ” section soon. I disagree that I don’t know about your intellect or common sense….you post it here everyday.
Yes, yes, I’ve heard it – the sky is falling, boo hoo. I haven’t heard much in the way of solutions. Except to “throw the bums out.” And replace them with…who exactly? No one? I would not have figured you for an anarchist, but unlike you I do not pretend to know total strangers.
The sky is not falling …but we have problems in our country that need to be addressed. You are right I want them thrown out of office if they have been there more than eight years, and I do have opinions for what I think are solutions but that’s for another post.
Like I said you’re pretty easy to figure out. Remember you’re the one that took her ball and ran away.
Yikes!! Can’t we all get along
?
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I guess I am a middle of the road wimp. On the one hand, I think I understand where Stu is coming from. If he went through the proper channels to become a citizen, and is a law abiding, tax paying citizen—it would be very hard to watch the current situation.
On the other hand, I agree with Jennie. If we just keep “cleaning house” with our elected politicians, we are probably going to be worse off than ever. There are some decent incumbents that are in danger this November because of the “throw them all out” mentality. We, as a society, have gotten lazy about investigating who we are electing.
On the other hand–oops, I’ve run out of hands. I guess I’ll hush
On a serious note, the polarization of this country is what frightens me the most. I think this is a more important issue than immigration. Both parties have equal blame. Each party is more worried about retaining power, than doing what is right. Democrats are calling Republicans, “the party of NO.” I don’t remember the Democrats cooperating with President Bush. While the name calling and quarreling go on in Washington, there are serious problems that need attention. Each side has to be willing to compromise. As Lincoln said almost 150 yrs ago, “A house divided against itself, can not stand.” We need to stop pointing fingers and start working together.
I’m finished preaching, and wish everyone a happy healthy Memorial Day weekend. Let’s remember the wonderful men and women who gave their lives to protect our ability to disagree openly.
Stu says…I don’t think Costa Mesa is in the wrong at all. When does a city have a target on its back when they up hold the law? If I read it wrong I apologize in advance.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I don’t know much about the Costa Mesa issue, but I didn’t mean to condemn the city’s actions. I was agreeing that the California Latino Legislative Caucus appears out of line on this issue.
Wendy says…We, as a society, have gotten lazy about investigating who we are electing.
I agree Wendy. I am guilty as well. I vote absentee and sometimes just rush through the ballot. We have an election coming up in June and I am going to try and spend a bit more time looking at the candidates and the propositions we have to vote on.
Stu,
Could I ask you to please not post in the Gosselin thread. If you think politics is controversial and a heated subject- wait until you read some of the Gosselin related threads around the internet.
LOL, so true, Pam.
Wait! I want Stu to post in the Gosselin threads! I like a good heated exchange in any thread.
I have an uncle who once told me his dream was to own a bar where the patrons were requiredto fight about politics and religion. If Murph’s Bar ever opens, Jennie and Stu get their own stools at the bar. I’ll buy the first round.
Rose, don’t draw a direct line between the preferential treatment of the poor and taxes. I don’t. The point being made is:
A big part of the problem with our illegal immigration is that the laws on the books are not a good fit anymore. It takes too long for people to get into this country legally. Most illegal immigrants are good people who work everyday. Why don’t they just come in legally then? IMO, this is the greatest country on earth (sorry, Canadians, you have a very good country too.) People are coming in because they are poor and have little hope for a decent life for their families in their home countries. Why aren’t we letting them in? That’s what I mean by the preferential treatment of the poor. It might mean a reduction in my own wealth, by increased taxes for public schools, etc., but I am willing to make that sacrifice because I think it is the right thing to do. There are states where people already pay way too much in taxes (NY, NJ?) and cities, too (Philly, L.A.) Wouldn’t you like us country folk to share the burden? I think increased legal immigration will ultimately make our nation stronger.
Wendy, I agree with your comments. If you ever need another hand, borrow one of mine.
Let’s remember the wonderful men and women who gave their lives to protect our ability to disagree openly.
So true Wendy!
I agree with most of the last few posts. Why not clean house….These are the people who got us into this mess and it took them years to do this. A lot of them just kept kicking the bucket down the road. What will happen with Social Security ? It’s a giant ponzi scheme. Many bonds are voted on in good faith by us and then the money is stolen to pay for other things ( pet Projects for votes ) Why not give other people a chance at fixing this and tell them that they have X amount of years to do it and then that’s it. They go back to there life and we look for someone else to continue. Kind of like what we do at the Presidential level. ….Just a thought.
Samantha….
Thanks for the reminder and the reason.
This is why people in CA are angry:
LAUSD to vote on whether to join economic boycott of Arizona
Daily News Wire Services
Posted: 06/01/2010 07:34:31 AM PDT
Updated: 06/01/2010 07:42:14 AM PDT
The Los Angeles Unified School District Board of Education today will consider adding its voice to those of cities and community groups opposing Arizona’s recently approved law cracking down on illegal immigrants.
The board will consider adopting a resolution condemning the law and exploring ways of curtailing economic support of the state and companies based in Arizona.
This is what the Teachers Union in Los Angeles are spending their time on! This is not an education isssue and the Teachers Union should NOT be a political organization. They should be focusing on teaching , that’s it! Every Baord member who votes for this boycott should be voted out of office!
Does anyone agree with me?
My mistake, it is not the Los Angeles Teachers Union voting on the AZ boycott it is the Los Angeles School Board. Just to clarify, I don’t want to blame the Teachers Union for this idiotic waste of time.
Holly, I agree with you.
From what I have heard, the LA School Board is dealing with some very serious issues in their own backyard. It would appear 100% of their energies should be devoted to dealing with their own problems.