Kate takes the kids on a special trip to visit Henry, an Amish farmer and friend who has often supplied their family with fresh produce. After a satisfying and fresh organic meal together, it’s time a family game night — but will everyone play nicely?
Farm To Table – New Episode
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85 Responses to Farm To Table – New Episode
I love the Amish country. It is so serene, almost other worldly.
It’s also central headquarters for puppy mills in PA and Indiana. Amish events are now being boycotted all across the country because of it. TLC did not do their homework on this one, and after the debacle with the Gosselin dogs it’s going to anger every animal activist in the country who wasn’t already angry with them last week.
i think there are many many wonderful, pleasant and genuine places in amish country as well…i guess i just don’t always associate the worst things i hear about something/place everytime i hear about it. i live in east central indiana close to one of the rumored puppy mills and i hope the puppy mill thing is not what people think when they find out where i live.
from what i have seen this episode is focusing on a farm with fresh veggies etc. i wouldn’t have even remembered about the puppy mill thing had it not been mentioned…
i probably won’t watch the show tomorrow at first viewing…i want to watch the new house episode…but i will watch it 2 hours later as it comes on again then.
i guess i just don’t always associate the worst things i hear about something/place everytime i hear about it.
ITA. Though I think for some people it’s less about that an more about finding a way to jab at the Gosselins again. If Jon did indeed get rid of the dogs permanently (there seems to be some confusion over that), I wouldn’t call it a “debacle” – the Gosselins are not the first people in the history of pet ownership to decide they can’t handle the responsibility. It’s unfortunate, but “debacle” seems like a rather strong word to use to describe it.
I don’t know where you live, badcall, but it can’t be near PA Amish country. It’s beautiful farm land, some of the most fertile on earth. The Amish get along very well with their neighbors. As for Amish events being “boycotted all across the country,” do you mean boycotted by other Amish, since that’s who usually attend Amish events?
For the record, I support neither puppy mills nor bigotry against an entire cultural group.
Good morning ,i have to say i really enjoy the Amish people they are very friendly,very hospitable people.I know how it feels to be discrimonated against,I don’t know if any of you remember the Lockerbie Scotland air plane bomings? a few years ago,it was in the news again just recently about the bomber getting out! to go back to his own country.Have you ever heard of John Gibbs? he also does tv (the fox news channel i think ) he made fun of the scottish people when he informedus of the Lockerbie bomber getting out! (they should never let him out!!!) but he was very hatefull of Scottish people,making fun of hoe we speak! of our National dress! “the Kilt” of our bag pies” i,have heard remarks before about “men in Skirts”and such things very “rude and Insulting” complete ignorance!!! but you do have to go on with your’e life.I’m from outskirts of Glasgow a place called “Stonedyke” i’ve lived here a very long time (married a sailor) anyway just thout i would mention that,i love going to ammish land “very peacefull and lovely” Agnes.
Boy, if the Amish are such horrible people, what does that make the rest of us?
I, too, would hate to be judged based on the behavior of others of my same race/community/social group/church, whatever!
I have visited Amish country in Indiana multiple times and they are some of the most kind, considerate people I have ever met. Sometimes I think their more simple life is the way to go!
Do I agree with puppy mills? No way! But I am most certainly not going to judge an entire group based on the actions of some….
Once, again, Kate can’t win….I am even shocked that visiting a farmers market and buying fresh veggies can cause such controversy! Only in Gosselin land…give me a break!
And by the way bad call….do you know all of the actions of all of the companies (and their executives, employees, etc.) YOU do business with? I’d have to guess not since that would be nearly impossible…not trying to be argumentative, just a little food for thought…before we start condemning others…
***”and after the debacle with the Gosselin dogs it’s going to anger every animal activist in the country who wasn’t already angry with them last week.”***
I am pretty certain any true (and sane) animal activist has better things to do than worry about the Gosselin dog situation.
ITA with Agnes and others on the inherent unfairness and bigotry in classifying a whole group of people or country based on the actions of a few.
***”and after the debacle with the Gosselin dogs it’s going to anger every animal activist in the country who wasn’t already angry with them last week.”***
Since the breeder who sold the dogs to the Gosselins lives in Delaware, I don’t know why a visit to the Pennsylvania Amish county, which is practically in the G’s backyard, should angerthe animal activists unless they are the regular Gosselin haters who turn every positive experience into a negative….
bad call said:
The Gosselins could have helped to spread information instead of giving them more business.
but here’s the thing…the farm that kate is going to visit with the children doesn’t have anything to do with any of the puppy mills. so why can’t kate just take her kids to an amish farm and have fun and get her veggies? how is she giving the puppy mill owners more business?
where kate goes to get her veggies has absolutely nothing to do with puppy mills. it’s two entirely different subjects; one has nothing to do with the other.
oh…bad call…someone under another name posted the above post exactly on gwop….someone has copy and pasted your post…you might want to check that out…unless you are that person…just sayin’
I would have thought the animal activists had given up on Kate after she bought a side of beef, but what do I know?
Hey, the Duggars visited an Amish family a little while ago. Are the animal activists angry with them, as well?
I agree, organic vegetables have nothing in common with puppy mills, unless you are bigoted against the Amish and paint all of the people of one culture as guilty of the sins of others who share their culture. Badcall, although it’s wonderful you can join others here who have rescued pets, it does not excuse this bias against a farmer because of his religious beliefs and culture. I do agree that Kate has a great platform for spreading information. I am happy she has chosen local farms and businesses to promote. I think buying/eating organic is a great message.
In the promo Colin says, “Henry growed it, Mommy cooked it and we eat it!”
Great lesson for the kids. I think Kate does a good job, promoting organic.Those kids seem to eat a lot that mine wouldn’t touch as a pre-schooler!
Kimmie, great posts. Totally agree.
Jmax, you nailed it….
Once, again, Kate can’t win….I am even shocked that visiting a farmers market and buying fresh veggies can cause such controversy! Only in Gosselin land…give me a break!
And by the way bad call….do you know all of the actions of all of the companies (and their executives, employees, etc.) YOU do business with? I’d have to guess not since that would be nearly impossible…not trying to be argumentative, just a little food for thought…before we start condemning others…
Seeing old episodes next to new ones it strikes me how much of Kate’s bad behavior was sparked by Jon. Good, bad or indifferent. I think Kate is much calmer these days, and I have to say I actually liked this episode. It was cute and light–just a day in the life episode. I would be flamed to the high heavens for saying this elsewhere, but I like Kate a lot more since she and Jon separated.
Thanks so much Jmax AND Kimmie for your awesome posts! Before I signed on tonight to post my thoughts about tonight’s episode, never would I have dreamed in a thousand years that this sweet show tonight about a Mommy interacting and doing her best for her kids (IMO) could cause an uproar of any kind.
In fact, I actually dared to think…”what a GREAT WEEK!…the GWOPpers won’t be able to take issue with anything this time!!” Shows you how very naive I happen to be.
Of course, however, if I dared to waste my time (SOMETHING I REFUSE TO DO) by going over to “lurk” at GWOP, they’d shoot down my “latter theory” in a New York second!ha!
Erin Kate, I totally agree with you too. I was SO impressed by the way that Kate has mellowed and adapted now that her “ninth child” is not antagonizing her nonstop. I venture to guess that if he had been there during this episode (regarding Cara’s injury), there would have been a lot of stress, tension and finger pointing.
IMO – If Kate’s meltdowns are as terrible as Jon, Kevin and Jodi have claimed them to be, I think the fact that we haven’t really seen a meltdown since she’s been forced to take the “healm herself” and appears to be working on her demeanor proves that they were just looking for reasons to sell her out.
“I think the fact that we haven’t really seen a meltdown since she’s been forced to take the “healm herself” and appears to be working on her demeanor proves that they were just looking for reasons to sell her out.”
I don’t believe it proves anything. We only get to see what the producers let us see and they’ve picked a position and are beating us over the head with it. It’s all about ratings. Kate was the villain until the split and now Jon is.
The only thing the producers aren’t considering is the kids’ well-being.
I certainly can’t blame Jon for Kate’s previous melt-downs just like I can’t blame Kate for Jon’s behaviour now.
Donna, I agree with you – I don’t blame Jon for Kate’s previous behavior. We are all responsible for ourselves, and in the past Kate seemed to have a much poorer handle on her stress. At the same time, I think it’s a choice to see Kate’s calmer exterior as all producer and editing-driven. It seems to me that it’s at least as valid to assume that Kate really is a calmer, happier person these days, in spite of the strains of parenting alone, the constant media attention and Jon’s erratic public behavior.
It’s been said before, but it’s really unfair the way that Kate can’t win with some people: if she acts bad she gets the full measure of blame for that (and then some), but when she behaves well it gets labeled damage control and good editing.
I don’t think the behavior of either – before or now – is producer driven. The way Kate and Jon interacted with each other was a function of both their personalities. Kate was and is driven and was trying to co-parent with Jon who was and is directionless. The clash caused Kate to meltdown a lot and Jon to retreat into himself a lot.
As Kate has worked through the divorce and has become independent, she has calmed down. She is no longer dealing with that clash of personalities. As Jon as gone through the divorce, he has acted out not really ready to make sound decisions on his own.
If any of this was producer driven, Kate would have had a nicer personality on the show all along and Jon would have been a stronger will on the show all along. Post-seperation, the producers would have had Jon looking and acting much more responsiblity.
Sorry this is all Jon and Kate – both then and now.
Have to ask, what did you think about Kate letting the babysitter take
Cara to the doctor so she could have game night with the other children?
Why wouldn’t she have the babysitter stay home and she take Cara? Kinda irresponsible to me…JMO
Ccrider–Honestly, when I had pneumonia when I was 16 my parents wouldn’t take work off to take me to the doctor so a family friend took me. I had strep throat when I was about 7 another time and was sent home from school and my best friend’s mom took me to the doctor. I had to get a shot and she stayed with me after because my mom decided to stay at school to work after 3. I turned out just fine. To be entirely honest, Kate is a nurse, I’m sure she looked at it and realized it probably wasn’t broken. My best friend is a nurse (yes, the same one whose mother took me to the doctor at 7) and I call her all the time to ask about minor things including a sprained ankle once.
Yes i think if it were me,iwould want to be with my children goint to any doctor’s appointment as you would probably know more about thier health than anybody else would.In case their were questions about their health,you would be there to answer them should they come up ! i agree with you JMO! Agnes
ccrider, I didn’t think a thing about it. There’s nothing wrong with having someone take your child to the doctor for you. Kate had promised to play games with the kids. It was Kate’s last night before the custody change, I’m sure she wanted to spend as much time as possible with all them. Kate did take her Cara for the x-ray later on. I don’t see how any of that is irresponsible.
Ypu know, I’ll be the first to admit my bad, but I immediately equate the Amish with puppy mills. The concentration is alarmingly high in Central PA. Lancaster County, I think. Also, there was that story about the farmer shot 80 dogs because he was going to be shut down.
That being said, I thought the episode was pretty good. I am all for organic farming. I don’t think Kate is supporting puppy mills, and I don’t think TLC should avoid the PA Amish all together.
I would love to eat the yummy fresh veggies she bought. I think I’ll go to to a produce stand soon.
I don’t know what I would have done about the doctor thing. I would want to be the one answering health questions and would also want to spend time with the majority of kids as well. I think she did the best she could.
The games looked fun, but the blatant ad stuff is so annoying.
I wonder why Jon is shown so infrequently now–if Figure 8 plans to shoot more on Kate days or there is a problem and he doesn’t want to shoot? I actually like watching him with the kids more (even though he seems soooo different personally than I thought).
I really related to Kate passing a park and having fond memories. Whenever I drive by my old neighborhood I remember the kids being young and playing at certain parks.
I never would have put up with that fight. I would have (depending on my mood
) either taken the music stuff away or sitting with both girls and asking how they would suggest working out the problem fairly. I can’t stand when my kids screech and fight and always stifle immediately cause I can NOT listen to that.
Long rambling message!
i think kate did ok with the dr thing. i’m sure she wanted to spend time with all the kids playing with them as she promised. i don’t think there was a lot of medical histroy needed really. it was a bruise and a little bit of swelling. cara told the cameras what happened and could tell the dr. as a nurse maybe kate figured what the dr would find and that it wouldn’t be all that complicated. plus cara had been running, jumping, etc and not seemed to be in pain…
she did take her to the xray which she didn’t have to do at all.
about the girls fighting…i think cara is going through such a very hard time…she is very close to jon and i think she is emotionally on overload. i think punishing her for it wouldn’t help. she’d just internalize. i thought mady was less mean and antoagonistic. i think mady’s personality is that she is trying to make sense of what is happening and do the best she can. they are only 9 (almost) and bless their hearts they are going through a rough time.
I haven’t seen this episode yet, but I assume Cara was injured somehow? I would think the irresponsible thing would be to ignore it. Making sure she was seen by a doctor was responsible. Just because it’s something “you” wouldn’t do, doesn’t mean it’s the “wrong” thing to do.
I saw bits and pieces of the episode. I will probably watch it sometime tomorrow morning in its entirety, But from what I saw… I thought I did see her drive Cara to the hospital and it was at night?
I watched the episode. The story of Cara’s injury – it was a two-week old injury and Cara had been walking/mobile. It was not an injury that just occurred and it was not illness in which past medical history would be relevant. At dinner, Cara asked about having it looked it. Kate decided to go ahead and get it done that evening because it was her last evening of custody. She then had the choice of disappointing 7 kids by leaving them with the babysitter or having the babysitter take Cara for the visit. I think Kate acted very responsibly – she had the old injury looked at and spent time with the other kids. When Cara needed the x-ray Kate took her that night so it wouldn’t be left undone when she had to leave.
Cool. Thanks for the recap Paige.
I actually enjoyed this episode quite a bit.
I liked seeing the visit to the organic farm and hearing a little bit about the family’s history with Henry. What a treasure to have a farm like this nearby where you can purchase vegetables and fruit just picked.
One of the things Kate has always done well IMO is try to prepare nutritionally balanced, fresh (organic, when possible) meals for her family as much as possible. You get the sense she really enjoys cooking and it’s nice to see that side of her. I think the kids are being raised to understand where their food comes from and appreciate many different foods and I applaud that.
I agree with Erin Kate and others – it’s nice to see a calmer, generally easier-going Kate. I love how Collin is speaking up more and the little speech he quoted was quite cute.
I could have done without the Cara melt-down and fighting. It wasn’t that pleasant to listen to and while I think Cara’s behavior is understandable and not that concerning, I think it was an incident best left off film for her sake.
I can’t stand seeing the older girls fight/meltdown either. I just think it’s a bad idea for their sakes to show it.
At first, I thought I would have taken my daughter to the doctor, and put off “Family Game Night” for another time. But, it really was an old injury, and most likely nothing serious. “Family Game Night” was an obvious advertisement, and I suspect Kate felt committed to getting that done for the show. I respect the dilemma she faced and how she handled it. Years ago, I had to make a decision to take one of my children to the hospital for a few stitches or meet another commitment. It wasn’t easy, but I had my husband take our child for stitches. I felt guilty, but it worked out. Cara’s injury was not even that serious, and we have cell phones to make contact easier now.
Once again, the Gosselin kids prove just how cute five year olds can be.
I didn’t miss Jon. He was a drag last week, and it’s hard to forget his indiscretions. When I saw him with the kids last week it just made me sad.
I forgot to add, when I think of the Amish, I think of farms, quilts, and beautiful furniture.
I loved the part where they visited the farmer. I agree, those veggies and melons looked so yummy. We have a farmer’s market nearby that I enjoy, we are able to get Amish butter there. It’s all so good. When I think of Amish, I think of the pies. But, I’m conditioned because mybil always brings me a coconut cream pie from a town he stops by on his way here. They are incredible.
I could have done without Cara’s melt-down. I have had those moments when you’re too busy and they have to sort it out themselves, but the screaming like that is hard to ignore. I’d rather just see the happy parts. I like it when they do ornery every day kid stuff, (like Lexy standing on the chair after Jon told her to quit), I just don’t want to hear Cara screaming.
To me, whether or not Kate went to the doctor with Cara, is a non-issue. I thought she was lucky they could take Cara then and she could get her there. It’s not like Cara had just had an accident and injured herself. She wasn’t scared and she had been running up and down the steps and jumping up and down. Actually, my mom guess is, that it only hurt when she turned it a certain way, since she thought of it when she was sitting waiting for dinner. Plus, I think it would have been such a disappointment to all the children if Kate couldn’t have played with them the night before she left. I would have done it exactly like Kate without a thought.
Ann, I didn’t t miss Jon either.
I agree with ccrider and Agnes. At first I thought the news stations had made an error when they reported she had a sitter take her child to the doctor. You all cleared it up for me. In no way would I play games or even consider TLC as my directive to the care of my child. This is what I really don’t like about either of the parents. The money ranks higher than any of their children.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you have also spoken with J/K? Maybe your experience was much different than ours. I would be interested to know. Maybe our 3 encounters were flukes.
I didn’t miss Jon. He was a drag last week, and it’s hard to forget his indiscretions. When I saw him with the kids last week it just made me sad.
ITA. It just kind of icks me out to watch Jon now, so I’d rather not see him on my screen, as much as possible.
I think Kate made a reasonable decision having the babysitter take Cara to the doctor’s. Cara did not seem traumatized or like she needed comfort – it was a routine appointment to check on a nagging injury. I could understand Kate wanting to go with her (as she went later for the x-ray), but I could also understand her wanting to honor her commitment to the other kids (and even to the show; like it or not, this is her job right now) to have game night. She could’ve just left it for Jon to deal with if she really was going to be neglectful (and I don’t even think *that* would’ve been that big a deal, given the nature of the injury).
Just out of curiousity, how many of you have also spoken with J/K? Maybe your experience was much different than ours. I would be interested to know. Maybe our 3 encounters were flukes.
I’ve never spoken to either of them.* Given the lies and imposters I’ve encountered in my time following the Gosselins, I don’t take anyone else’s word regarding “encounters” with them, either. I judge what I see on the screen and hear or read from reliable sources.
* Heh, I almost forgot my booksigning experience with Kate! So I have spoken to her once. We are not BFFs but she did not steal my soul with the power of her evil eyes, either. She was perfectly pleasant and professional, IMO.
~Just out of curiousity, how many of you have also spoken with J/K? Maybe your experience was much different than ours. I would be interested to know. Maybe our 3 encounters were flukes.~
What was your experience like? And what three people are you referencing? When I met her at a book signing she was very pleasant. She was very sweet to a child with the woman in front of us and was very cordial and chatty to my friend and I.
Right on Jennie! And thanks for the laugh. she did not steal my soul with the power of her evil eyes
Trixie,
I am intrigued! What news stations reported that Kate had a sitter take her kids to the doctor? How would they have even known?
And what are the three encounters? I missed that somewhere? Were they good or bad experiences?
I do know two moms who took their 11 year olds to a book signing last winter. One got in and the other didn’t, because it was packed. The first girl said she was really nice, but had to leave shortly afterward and the second said she waved as she left.
I really enjoyed the show. Those kids eat stuff my kids wouldn’t touch even if they were starving.
As for Kate not taking Cara to the dr, I didn’t even think twice about it, it didn’t seem to be a big deal, I’m sure if Kate thought it was serious she would have taken her, as soon as she knew she needed an x-ray she made arrangements to take her to it. I have 4 children and as hard as I try, I just can’t always attend everything for all of them, it doesn’t make me happy but thats just life.
I am intrigued! What news stations reported that Kate had a sitter take her kids to the doctor? How would they have even known?
The recaps on any news website. I refuse to watch the show to give legitimacy to the exploitation of the kids by either parent.
We had 2 official meetings. Once when the little ones were probably about 2 or 3, right before they moved from doing church affairs to having a PR rep. Once with just Kate just recently (4 months perhaps) with her PR rep and the third encounter was with 1 of them very recently and I refuse to add to the distress of the kids by even discussing it openly since both my dh and I were a bit taken aback.
Our first impression: She was socially awkward but great on stage speaking; He was horrible speaking, to the point of stage fright but worked the crowd really well. We (dh and I) both thought they could take their strengths and work as a team and become quite dynamic. Dh was on a recon mission for his church to try to see if it was viable to have them for speaking engagement but the point was moot since just after they moved to a PR rep and the price was way out of the church’s range. He recommended them but like I said the price changed due to representation. In no way do I dislike change of representation I think all speakers should have the right to price themselves in any market. Just out of range that’s all.
Our second encounter was for a speaking engagement that was sponsored by the Detroit area Parenting Mag. This mag is the kind that is free in local libraries, schools, Drs. offices etc. Dh, once again in his church role, raised the money for sponsoring a groups of parents to go to the engagement. We were at the engagement and were guests of the sponsor to the speaker.
Third encounter was not a planned encounter but merely sitting in a restaurant and watched something stroll by – and we gasped.
My dh is a Detroit area business man (auto industry) and is quite devout in his faith. I have no faith (lol) and am not at all involved in church with the exception of charity work which we both enjoy. I will say this, neither of them were put off by a Catholic church invitation. I liked that since some Southern Baptist are quite against the Catholic church.
Back to the taking kid to doctors. After further reflection and my co-worker telling me that it seemed and afterthought that one of the kids brought up at dinner, about hurt foot. My co-worker seemed to think the whole thing was staged anyway. In any case, I am sure none of us here would not accompany our child to a doctors appointment. Yes, having their father (of our kids) take the child is quite acceptable. We all teach our kids about priorities. Taking care of the health of a family member – high priority; Playing board games – low, low priority. I can’t imagine any parent choosing the wrong option. Staging for a show? Who cares. Though I would not want to be portrayed in that way fiction or not.
Trixie, Jon and Kate are not Southern Baptist.
In any case, I am sure none of us here would not accompany our child to a doctors appointment. Yes, having their father (of our kids) take the child is quite acceptable. We all teach our kids about priorities. Taking care of the health of a family member – high priority; Playing board games – low, low priority. I can’t imagine any parent choosing the wrong option.
Did you bother to read the thread? There are a couple of people who disagree with you. I am one of them and I take offense to your position that I would be wrong and not have my priorities straight. I’ve already given my reasons upthread. I would not presume to tell another mother she was wrong for not playing games and taking her child to the doctor. Everyone has their own priorities and their own way of doing things.
Did I stroke out? I keep watching this clip because “some people” are saying Kate is pouring vodka in a travel coffee mug. To me it looks like white cooking wine, and she is measuring it into the sauce. It starts about 45 seconds in, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQzFSZf3A0k. It isn’t really clear, I’ve never had yellowish vodka. I swear, sometimes I wonder if I’m watching the same show as the rest of the world.
Erin Kate, you did not stroke out.
Those morons will do and say anything and make up lies to further their agenda.
They seriously need a life.
Erin Kate – I watched it 2x and I think I can safely say you haven’t suffered a stroke! Thank goodness. We need you.
I don’t know what the heck “they” are talking about, but I think they have let their imaginations get the best of them. Wouldn’t be the first time….
* * * * * * * *
“I would not presume to tell another mother she was wrong for not playing games and taking her child to the doctor. Everyone has their own priorities and their own way of doing things.” – Lily
Lily: There you GO AGAIN. Being reasonable and looking at the whole situation in its entire context. Some people just enjoy being judgy even if they have never (and will never) encounter the same circumstances!
Did you bother to read the thread? There are a couple of people who disagree with you. I am one of them and I take offense to your position that I would be wrong and not have my priorities straight. I’ve already given my reasons my upthread. I would not presume to tell another mother she was wrong for not playing games and taking her child to the doctor. Everyone has their own priorities and their own way of doing things.
You realize that a judge may not agree with you too? I can’t believe you would change your parenting methods to fulfill a fan fantasy. Come on! Here is my opinion. Any mother who would act like this makes me feel very, very sorry for her children! Parents need to be parents and take parenting seriously. I have a feeling in the zeal to defend her you may be saying something that is simply not true. I have more faith in you than that. Like I said, the whole thing was probably scripted anyways and she would not act like that. She is a nurse after all.
You know I have allowed some of you to tear into me while I have been very polite. Is it just the zeal of the show and being a fan that makes someone terribly rude? Can no one dispute Kate? Must we all agree to hate Jon and she is the all angelic victim? PLEASE! Both are just as bad, both have failed at the marriage and both should have been more mature and given these innocent children better than they have. They did better for the kids when they were unknown and broke and worked as a team to parent. Do not expect to join the Jon bashing when both spouses have equal parts in a marriage. Don’t buy into the hype that TLC is peddling and more adults need to speak up for the safety of ALL CHILDREN. Standing around and excusing someone’s behavior toward children is not right.
Even though I have ACTUALLY TALKED TO THEM. I still am balanced and non-commital on fault. Why? Because I am a grown up and know that this could be A) all a sham; B) a couple of idiots gold digging using their children; C) a couple of dummies who are immature and went into marriage without knowing each other. I tend to think A.
Please, continue to tell me how terrible I am for thinking of children first.
You realize that a judge may not agree with you too? I can’t believe you would change your parenting methods to fulfill a fan fantasy.
What does this mean? Why do you assume that’s what Kate was doing? She had a choice between taking Cara to the appointment and disappointing the other seven kids and she made it. We may speculate that production played a part but we don’t know it, and I have no idea what you mean by “fan fantasy”.
Parents need to be parents and take parenting seriously. I have a feeling in the zeal to defend her you may be saying something that is simply not true. I have more faith in you than that. Like I said, the whole thing was probably scripted anyways and she would not act like that. She is a nurse after all.
I see no evidence that Kate wasn’t taking her parenting seriously. Perhaps as a nurse she had a better than layman’s idea that the foot was nothing serious.
You know I have allowed some of you to tear into me while I have been very polite. Is it just the zeal of the show and being a fan that makes someone terribly rude?
It’s rude to assume that everyone agrees with you (“I am sure none of us here would not accompany our child to a doctors appointment”); it’s rude to accuse other posters of lying (“I have a feeling in the zeal to defend her you may be saying something that is simply not true”). I would rethink the claim that you’ve been “very polite”.
Can no one dispute Kate? Must we all agree to hate Jon and she is the all angelic victim?
Except no one’s said that. I’d venture to guess that no one on this site has EVER called Kate “angelic”. As for “disputing” her, or criticizing her, of course you can. But if you do so by making outrageous claims (suggesting that no parent would do what she did and stay with the other kids instead of going to the doctors’) or by making sinister intimations about your personal interactions with her, well, you are not making very convincing arguments and you can expect that their flimsiness may be pointed out to you. As for hating Jon, I think a lot of people are disgusted with his behavior, and with good reason. I don’t hate him but I do think that those who act as apologists for his ever-increasing pathetic behavior out of their own hatred for Kate are transparent and petty.
PLEASE! Both are just as bad, both have failed at the marriage and both should have been more mature and given these innocent children better than they have. They did better for the kids when they were unknown and broke and worked as a team to parent. Do not expect to join the Jon bashing when both spouses have equal parts in a marriage.
I think there is usually blame to go around when a marriage breaks up but I find Jon’s post-breakup behavior much more worthy of criticism than Kate’s. Things aren’t always black and white, and responsibility isn’t always 50/50. I think most parents are keenly aware of their shortcomings and those times that they could have done better by their children. Some, unfortunately, are also very quick to criticize the parenting of others. I have no idea if J&K did “better for their kids” when they were broke and unknown. I’m not sure how you could determine that conclusively from watching an edited TV show.
Even though I have ACTUALLY TALKED TO THEM. I still am balanced and non-commital on fault. Why? Because I am a grown up and know that this could be A) all a sham; B) a couple of idiots gold digging using their children; C) a couple of dummies who are immature and went into marriage without knowing each other. I tend to think A.
You seem to feel like you have some inside knowledge of J&K based on what sounds like a few brief public interactions. Lots of people have ACTUALLY TALKED TO THEM and not all of them have drawn the same conclusions that you have. This would seem to suggest that what you’ve expressed is opinion and not fact.
Please, continue to tell me how terrible I am for thinking of children first.
Please. I am not trying to start an argument, but lets be serious here. No one has said you are terrible. You have patted yourself on the back for being polite while calling others rude and suggesting that they are liars. Now you’re pulling the passive-aggressive “I care more about the children than you all do” card. It’s just silly to me. None of us knows the Gosselin family. I would venture to guess that most of us like the kids and have their best interests at heart. Disagreeing about who should’ve taken Cara to the doctor or about aspects of Kate’s character does not make you inherently a better, more moral person.
Trixie, a judge is not going to care who took a child to the doctor. A judge is going to care that she got there.
I never said I would change my parenting style. Under the circumstances Kate was in, to stay with my other kids and play games while the sitter drives my 8yo daughter to her doctor appt., would be my style.
I don’t feel the need to lie about my feelings in order to support Kate Gosselin. Part of the fun of the thread is reading the different point of views. Even if there is a common theme for a choice, it’s interesting to hear the different reasoning that goes into making it a choice. There are others, right here on this thread who dispute Kate. They said they would have taken Cara to the doctor instead of staying home to play games w/the other kids. I certainly don’t think they’re wrong for being different from me.
If you want to feel sorry for my children go ahead.. There’s only one left at home for which to feel sorry, my boys are grown and fine and dandy, but you can feel sorry for them too.
I find it odd that you don’t watch the show because you believe the children are exploited, but supposedly met with J&K to discuss some appearances. Don’t mean to be rude, but that seems hypocritical. I also doubt your claims for several reasons.
Anya, you’re so silly.
I love our discussions on all the articles here at IW.
Erin Kate, Oh, I had listen to Cara screaming twice to watch the part you’re talking about. Ita w/Anya, it’s nothing. There’s clear shots of those bottles on the counter. If you go back to part one,it looks like there is a camera w/Kate and a camera downstairs with the kids. I don’t know what show they’re watching either. It’s a hard push to create something really wrong with Kate..drinking, having an affair, etc.
Trixie, I am trying to understand what was so bad about your encournters with Kate and am mystified.
She was socially awkward but great on stage speaking,
I understand social awfkwardness and would never hold that against anyone. It is not a trait most people can help. It may explain why Kate is perceived badly by many people.
You didn’t give an impression of your second encounter and to refer to a third encounter as “something strolled by” sounds very dehumanizing. I presume you mean Kate strolled by doing something that shocked you.
I blame both Kate and Jon for the break down of their marriage. I do, however, think Jon’s behavior post seperation has been disgusting.
The trusted family babysitter took Cara to the Dr., its not like she sent her with a complete stranger.
Trixie, just this week my 2 of my children have seen a medical professional and I wasn’t at either appointment. My 13 year old daughter hurt her back on Sunday, Monday morning she was still in pain and needed to see her sports medicine doctor, I had already committed to going on a field trip with my 1st graders class, my husband is out of town working so a trusted family friend took her. Just yesterday my 17 year old son needed some blood work done, I stopped by the lab during the day and dropped off the orders and gave them insurance info, he went there alone after school. Does this make me a bad mother? In my opinion it doesn’t, my children received the medical attention they needed.
If Kate would have taken Cara to the Dr. everyone would be talking about the broken promise to play games with the other children, she just can’t win.
I really enjoyed the farm episode. I think we are all starting to see a more relaxed and vulnerable Kate. The discussion on the visit to the doctor had some very interesting opinions. I had to agree with most of the posters that it was an older injury and that for the most part Cara was walking / playing normally. Kate is always put under the microscope for every decision. Having the babysitter taking Cara was a no brainer for me. Most families use the same practice to take thier children to so all the medical information is on hand. Cara is now 9 years old able to communicate well enough to talk to a doctor with an adult present to explain how and where it hurts. Yes it was game night but I don’t think that was entirely the reason for the decision. The 7 other children might have had school the next day. Having mom put them to bed and making sure they went to sleep on time was most likely the wisest choice at that moment in time. Most parents realize structure and bedtimes routines are best for the children when the school year is in progress and also for thier own sanity:)
I have to agree with everyone ahead of me, Trixie. I can confidently say that a Judge would NOT care about the babysitter-doctor incident (if it can be called that). Babysitters and nannies are a fact of modern life with two-income families. I have made a career of putting children first; I give them a voice in the courts. I get awfully tired of people grand-standng and saying the kids are abused, need to be taken away from their parents, freed, and etc. I recently turned down a case where a woman wanted custody but she was clearly mentally ill. I do not see that same mental illness in Kate, despite what people think. I won’t take up the rest of your post, because I have to leave for work and my dogs need a little attention. But, just to reiterate, I’ve seen enough custody cases in juvenile and domestic relations courts to safely say this would not even hit the judge’s radar. As a matter of fact, if you brought this up in court as evidence of a bad mother, heaven help you because you will look bad, not the other parent (I promise you it will be considered petty and small).
Erin Kate- couldn’t agree more!
As a previous social worker in child welfare I laugh when people make comments about the Gosselin children being abused. Granted there are all levels of emotional & physical abuse but I’d like some of those people that think these kids have it rough to be a social worker in child welfare for a day & go to court w/ clients- then they’ll see what a true case of abuse/neglect is. The judges I know of would tell a person to get out of their courtroom and stop wasting their time over this trivial matter regarding who took Cara to doctor.
What I would like to see however, is this show end this season so these children can get out of the spot light & have their break downs privately (like Kate is able to do). IMO this would be in the children’s best interest.
trixie, when you first posted on the “Jon Gosselin Talks to Good Morning America” thread (sorry if I’m wrong, but I think your first post anywhere on this site), you referred to some of the posters here as “petty”. That could be considered pretty rude, coming into a group and “scolding” them for their choice of discussion topics.
“I have a feeling in the zeal to defend her you may be saying something that is simply not true.”
In the same thread you stated that J&K had “admitted the whole recommitment ceremony was a sham for the trip”, which turned out to be your interpretation of something you heard in an old interview. Perhaps in your zeal to discredit them you said something which was not true.
I find it odd that you don’t watch the show because you believe the children are exploited, but supposedly met with J&K to discuss some appearances. Don’t mean to be rude, but that seems hypocritical. I also doubt your claims for several reasons.
My thought above was based on your view that the children are being exploited on the show, and so also would refuse to participate in w/anything J&K Of course, that may not be opinion.
The rest of my post still stands the same.
i’dratherpokemyeyesout, right on. Totally agree with your post of … on September 24, 2009 at 6:14 am. I especially agree with your statement that this should be the last season of this show. I think the children should be able to grow, learn, and cultivate friendships out of the public eye. I believe it takes a special group, like this family is, to have made such a successful show. I do think all eight kids are blessed to have that something special that allowed them to be able to do the show at all. A whole heck of a lot of kids would’ve melted down on day1 and by the end of the week, show would’ve been given the axe. Credit to Kate and Jon for their parenting. (as we are seeing of late, more credit to Kate, as she is the one who had the vision and realized her family could do this. And, they can do it, with someone at the helm who understands the ability to absorb and grow and
I was reading thru this thread and the Jon Goes talks to Good Morning America Thread (which I never did read when it was originally posted a few weeks back, as I was working a double shift and never got to it) . I find it a credit to all who run and read this site on a regular basis because we all talk about so much more than this Gosselin world. We also are adult and respect each other’s opinions. And with that, we don’t force ours on others, nor do we make our opinion more “credible” by using fake stories to validate our opinions. We’re all adult and our bullshit filter is pretty high. Thus, we can easily see through those who do try to push their own agendas, and in a way that is disrespectufl and rude.
A great part of this site is we have no agenda, except discussing points with truth and respect for each other.
Jacquelyn, I am very happy to have read about your recent health success. When I read that, that made my day, and I stopped and said yet another prayer that the success continues for you.
Please, continue to tell me how terrible I am for thinking of children first.
That statement is not being polite, Trixie.
Thanks for writing out two (sort of) of your three “encounters.” I must say that I disapprove of your leaving a cryptic comment about some shocking thing you saw in the third encounter, but cannot recall. It is hard to defend oneself against innuendo. I am glad I am not the target of your disapproval!
A Catholic church invited the Gosselins to speak? That’s odd. I thought the Gosselin’s story, which they used to share at their speaking engagements, goes against the teaching of the Catholic Church in some parts. You’d better ask your devout husband to check with his Bishop next time he wants to stir up the faithful by using Church grounds to promote a story which does not quite fit with Church teaching.
I have never seen where they spoke at a Catholic Church. Have they? I would think it’d make news among the orthodox Catholics.
by making sinister intimations about your personal interactions with her, well, you are not making very convincing arguments and you can expect that their flimsiness may be pointed out to you. As for hating Jon, I think a lot of people are disgusted with his behavior, and with good reason. I don’t hate him but I do think that those who act as apologists for his ever-increasing pathetic behavior out of their own hatred for Kate are transparent and petty.
If you reread my post on that subject you will see I actually compliment both of them and say if they got their act together they could have made a dynamic team. They both have different strengths and like different parts of the speaking process. They could have made it work with the two of them and could have let the kids fade out in the background. As for the final part of your quote, I have never made apologies for Jon ever. I have always maintained that both parents are responsible for the mess.
You didn’t give an impression of your second encounter and to refer to a third encounter as “something strolled by” sounds very dehumanizing. I presume you mean Kate strolled by doing something that shocked you.
Why would you presume I mean Kate? This is my point, you presume when I never said that. In light of the recent PR on Jon why would you jump to the conclusion I mean Kate? Like I said, I won’t comment on what I saw.
I find it odd that you don’t watch the show because you believe the children are exploited, but supposedly met with J&K to discuss some appearances. Don’t mean to be rude, but that seems hypocritical. I also doubt your claims for several reasons.
Once again, reread the post. I said the little ones were 2 or 3 years old. They are 5 going on 6 so that was 3 years ago. I too thought the little documentaries were cute and informative when they were clipping coupons, Jon was working, having a sitter during nap time to go shopping. Normal events for most parents. Spring ahead 3 years and that depiction seems light years away and my opinion has changed. Can you explain how that is hypocrytical? You can doubt away about my claims(?). I feel I have actual insight into things not televised. It doesn’t mean anything to you fine, it has changed my views in regards pre-introduction and today. The power of tv is strong and the power of PR is even stronger.
A Catholic church invited the Gosselins to speak? That’s odd. I thought the Gosselin’s story, which they used to share at their speaking engagements, goes against the teaching of the Catholic Church in some parts. You’d better ask your devout husband to check with his Bishop next time he wants to stir up the faithful by using Church grounds to promote a story which does not quite fit with Church teaching.
Reread post. A Catholic church was thinking about inviting them to speak but with the addition of a TLC PR team they became unaffordable. I will have to stop you about speaking about my husband like that. I am sorry but he is faithful and devout. I respect all religions and don’t deny anyone’s views and wouldn’t dream of talking down to someone like that. But let me clear it up, he would check with the lay priest, Bishops rarely get involved in men’s/women’s issues in a local parish. It’s not like J/K are Satanists for goodness sakes. I too thought Kate came from a Southern Baptist background and many of them think Catholics are nonChristians do to the praying to the Holy Mother, something about false gods…….If they held those beliefs we would have respected that. I find it to their credit that they are open to other sects within Christianity. Catholics are pretty open to all Christians. Anyways another poster has stated that J/K are not Southern Baptists. Can you explain why you believe Catholics would not allow a non-Catholic Christian to speak? How exactly is it against church teaching? I don’t understand why we need to bring J/K’s faith into this discussion. I wouldn’t accuse anyone of misrepresenting their faith. It seems that faith was one of the things that held them strong as a family. Let’s not besmirch that.
In the same thread you stated that J&K had “admitted the whole recommitment ceremony was a sham for the trip”,
When Kate was on either Larry King or the View she stated something to the effect of….they were heading towards divorce for quite some time……That reaffirms my belief that the trip was for the trip and not for the ceremony. I find it hard to believe a couple would go through a ceremony of remarriage and then within a few months split up. Just my opinion. I hear the Duggars are also have a recommitment ceremony so perhaps TLC is big on this topic.
Taking kids to doctor: I have never had anone but me or my husband or both of us take one of our children to the doctor. I don’t know anyone who has. Even our custodian left her part-time job with loss in pay to take her child to the doctor. I feel parents know the child the best and can answer questions a doctor might have better than anyone else. Beside, kids are often apprehensive at the doctor and need a parent to reassure them. My opinion. Even though some of the posts above have disputed this in regards to court, let me tell you about a case I am working on right now:
A 10 yr old boy has divorced parents, the parents agreed to nesting (such as the situation the Gosselins have) and when the boy was about 4 the mother remarried. The father had the house the boy lived in paid off, the mother and stepfather lived there with the boy and all three of the parents (including the stepfather) had a good relationship. The mother and stepfather had a child who is now 5 (girl). The father not only paid child support but doubled it. He was allowing the mother and stepfather the use of the house with them paying 1/2 the utilities. This agreement would end when the girl turned 18. The father thought having the sister of his son remain close to his son was the right thing to do. The father paid all expenses and even in regards to the after school program, paid for both children. Both the father and the stepfather got along very well and both men doted on each others child. The father was doing very well financially and the stepfather was doing well. The father was killed in an accident. This makes the son the sole beneficiary to the father’s estate. Within 24 hours of the death children’s welfare was contacted by the bank. The mother was trying to convert all the assets to her name. There was no executor named due to the young age of the father (a mistake, I know). I coordinated the personnel for the child. His newly appointed lawyer had all the accounts frozen, the uncle was appointed executor to see to the inheritance for the boy. A social worker was appointed for each, the boy and the family. The upkeep of the house continued without interruption and child support also continued on the rate the father had been paying (which was double the court decree), the after school program was paid for both children and a clothing allowance was give to both children. The uncle wanted to keep the goodwill the father had established. But money changes people. The social worker for the boy has reported that his room was changed from the usual bedroom in the same area as the others to the basement. Changing room? Normally no one would care. Under these circumstances it is a clear objective to emotionally hinder the boy. The boy was taken out of the after school program and a refund given to the mother, the girl was left in. Another clear point to the evidence that the boy was emotionally being used for financial gain. Other things along those lines have occured. Singularly, each incident seems non threatening but when they are layered together you have a judge who is raising his eyebrows. Rightly so. We are treading on eggshells hoping this once functional and loving family would come to their senses. Will the uncle have to take custody of the boy to stop this emotional distress? I hope not but we can not allow money to dictate the treatment of the boy. How does a mother and a loving stepfather act like this? Greed? Do the Gosselin children experience this money vs care type of greed? My eyebrow is raised.
Let me add that my eyebrow is raised in regards to both parents. I feel these kids are caught in the middle of a war.
Trixie, As you will see above, many mothers–even those here–have made similar decisions. So basically you have called them all questionable caretakers of their children. Call Children’s services! All kidding aside I’ll say if I’m Jon’s attorney I seize on this as a way to call her into question. If I’m Kate’s attorney I say it was a hard decision: send a child to the doctor with a nanny who has been with them for over a year, or leave the other seven at home with the nanny to go to the doctor with one for what turned out to be a bruise. These are judgment calls that every parent has to make. Kate sending Cara to the doctor, when taken in context of the entire situation, is not remotely problematic. Cara had been running, jumping, perfectly mobile for the entire day (that we saw). She said it hurt only once that we heard, at dinner. Kate called the doctor to attempt to get an early morning appointment for her and they allowed her to come in immediately. As a nurse I’m sure Kate would know that had Cara had a broken foot, it would have been very hard for Cara to be as mobile as she had been the past two weeks. Cara’s insistence that they “fix her foot” probably stemmed a little bit from the fact that bruises do hurt, and probably a little from wanting attention. My point here is, you have to take each as a whole and looked at in context. Taken alone: Kate didn’t take Cara to the doctor! Kate didn’t play with her kids, she cleaned the garage instead! Kate didn’t give the boys their birthday cupcakes! They are nice little things to throw out there to make her look questionable, in context they are all judgment calls, that any other reasonable parent could have made. Kate didn’t give the cupcakes to the boys because they hadn’t eaten enough of their dinner, that is a house rule, and they were not the only birthday cake the boys got. Kate is a clutterphobe and can’t sit until things are picked up. Kate assessed the situation and decided that Cara could go to the doctor with the nanny (who has worked for them full time for a year). Your story diverges here, because what the mother did was not reasonable. Attempting to take assets which rightfully belongs to her son is not a judgment call, even if the moving rooms could be. The fact of the matter remains that even taken in context attempting to convert assets is not remotely a reasonable judgment call where the things leveled against Kate almost always are.
If I’m the GAL, my assessment is going to be different, and to be honest I wouldn’t really care. I don’t look for “who took A to the doctor.” I see which parent interacts better with the child. I observe the child with siblings in the home. I look to the school records and ask teachers how the children are week to week (this is the best tool, they will always know who has visitation because of the way the child acts, looks, how well the homework is done or checked). I talk to the children, I find out if they feel neglected. I find out how they feel when they stay with each parent. If a parent brought this up to me I would be immediately suspicious of the parent who brought it up for a couple of reasons: 1. It is a fairly petty issue and if you are bringing it up to me I suspect that you probably are trying to smear the other parent. 2. If statement one is correct, and you are trying to smear the other parent, you don’t really have your kids best interests in mind, you are mostly just trying to stick it to your ex. 3. If statements one and two are correct, you’re not as sly as you think you are, your resentment and desire to “beat” your ex has bled down to the children and it is negatively affecting them. This last statement is almost always true. I always caution divorcing parents to watch what they say about each other that might get back to the children. I think that is where my immense frustration with this case has come–if I was the GAL on this case you better believe I ask the judge to give them both a talking to (Kate’s comments about the aliens, etc. and then pretty much everything Jon has said publicly over the last couple of months–I think both were pretty out of line, Jon more than Kate on this point).
I’m windy, I know and I apologize. My point is this: even taken together with all the other criticisms leveled against Kate they don’t raise my eyebrow, and I promise you, in the given situation they wouldn’t raise a judge’s either. If I can ask, Trixie, are you a lawyer?
I’m Catholic and I forgot to add this: it is rare that a Catholic church would have a speaker from someone of another faith, at least in my diocese (and maybe we are fairly conservative, I don’t know). It is well and good to be open and think that people have a right to do as they chose. That being said, Jon and Kate are fundamentalist Christians. They belong to the same type of church as my older brother (they actually spoke at my brother’s church sometime in 2008). My brother believes that I will not go to heaven when I die because I have not been saved and I have not “found Jesus” (I was unaware that he was lost, but that is neither here nor there). He is honor bound to try to convert me. Given that message, and such fundamental disagreements on theology–not to mention that most fundamentalists think Catholics are idol-worshippers, and hold Mary as “above” Jesus (when I was little someone told me I belonged to the Cult of Mary and I was really upset and told my mom that people said I belonged to a cult, that’s color commentary, though) I’m not so sure them speaking at a Catholic church would really fly–in my area anyway. Not to mention that Jon and Kate probably would not want to speak at a Catholic church, given the distrust that most fundamentalists have against Catholics (i.e. we are not heaven bound, we are corrupt, we worship idols, etc). While I think their core message (trust in God and he will provide what you need) is universal to all Christian based religions, how we all get there isn’t.
Cara had been running, jumping, perfectly mobile for the entire day (that we saw). She said it hurt only once that we heard, at dinner. Kate called the doctor to attempt to get an early morning appointment for her and they allowed her to come in immediately. As a nurse I’m sure Kate would know that had Cara had a broken foot, it would have been very hard for Cara to be as mobile as she had been the past two weeks. Cara’s insistence that they “fix her foot” probably stemmed a little bit from the fact that bruises do hurt, and probably a little from wanting attention. My point here is, you have to take each as a whole and looked at in context. Taken alone: Kate didn’t take Cara to the doctor! Kate didn’t play with her kids, she cleaned the garage instead! Kate didn’t give the boys their birthday cupcakes! They are nice little things to throw out there to make her look questionable, in context they are all judgment calls, that any other reasonable parent could have made. Kate didn’t give the cupcakes to the boys because they hadn’t eaten enough of their dinner, that is a house rule, and they were not the only birthday cake the boys got. Kate is a clutterphobe and can’t sit until things are picked up
Yes she was running and jumping and in a follow up post I said it seems as though the whole doctor thing was probably scripted anyway. The rest of the quote is a puzzler. Cupcakes? Where in the world did that come from? Clutterphobe? Where in the world did that come from? I wish we could stick to the topic at hand and not invent quotes I have never mentioned. Can you point out where I have ever discussed cupcakes, dinner and clutter? I don’t understand why I keep getting completely misquoted and accused of statements I have never made. It’s a bit unfair wouldn’t you agree?
Erin are you from the south? We are in Michigan and we don’t segregate religion in a way you described. Just last week our parents group had a Jewish couple, who are quite well known in our area, speak. We’ve had many religions speak. Both our Lutheran and Catholic church belong to an interfaith community where we share our celebrations with our neighbors and our community. We have gone to Seders at the temple, help cook for Ramadan etc. Heck, I am not devout but enjoy sharing common interest with all groups. I said I had thought they were Southern Baptist or as you say fundamentalist. I was told I was wrong. Fair enough. I also said I found them quite open to speaking about parenting a large family. We weren’t asking them to convert or be convertend just plain old parenting a large family.
That being said, Jon and Kate are fundamentalist Christians. They belong to the same type of church as my older brother (they actually spoke at my brother’s church sometime in 2008). My brother believes that I will not go to heaven when I die because I have not been saved and I have not “found Jesus” (I was unaware that he was lost, but that is neither here nor there). He is honor bound to try to convert me. Given that message, and such fundamental disagreements on theology–not to mention that most fundamentalists think Catholics are idol-worshippers, and hold Mary as “above” Jesus (when I was little someone told me I belonged to the Cult of Mary and I was really upset and told my mom that people said I belonged to a cult, that’s color commentary, though) I’m not so sure them speaking at a Catholic church would really fly–in my area anyway. Not to mention that Jon and Kate probably would not want to speak at a Catholic church, given the distrust that most fundamentalists have against Catholics
I really think it’s unfair to both Jon and Kate to label them intolerant in regards to religion. I did not find this as such. Even if they did have misgivings of speaking outside their sect, we would have accepted that as a choice of their faith. I don’t think anyone should peg them as intolerant because of an experience (sorry you went through that) of others. I am going to have to stick up for them on this and in a big way. Way too many assumptions.
To end the religion question: I found this:
What religion are Jon and Kate Gosselin
Answer
Kate grew up in a non-denominational church, and Jon was raised Catholic. The family now attends an Assembly of God church.
Erin Kate, thanks for your run-down of things you look for as a GAL, particularly your three points about battling parents trying to stick it to each other. It made a lot of sense to me.
As for the final part of your quote, I have never made apologies for Jon ever. I have always maintained that both parents are responsible for the mess.
No, but you appeared to be defending Jon with this comment, “Can no one dispute Kate? Must we all agree to hate Jon and she is the all angelic victim?” – why juxtapose Jon with Kate if you don’t feel that he’s somehow being treated unfairly?
Like I said, I won’t comment on what I saw.
Except you have, and you continue to – you just insist on being coy about it. If it was so awful that you want to protect the kids from ever hearing about it, then you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place. If it’s not, then you should just come out with what you supposedly saw, to save everyone’s lurid imagination from going into overdrive.
Once again, reread the post. I said the little ones were 2 or 3 years old. They are 5 going on 6 so that was 3 years ago.
Actually, they are not even 5 1/2 yet. I’m not sure when J&K started doing church appearances – was it before the show? When did the show start? I don’t think it could’ve been too much before the little ones were 2 1/2, but I could be wrong. It sounds like you saw one of their very early appearances.
I too thought the little documentaries were cute and informative when they were clipping coupons, Jon was working, having a sitter during nap time to go shopping. Normal events for most parents. Spring ahead 3 years and that depiction seems light years away and my opinion has changed.
I believe Kate still clips coupons – at least she still did recently enough to cause the great coupon debate of…whenever it was. Less than a year ago, because it was in the new house.
I’m not sure why the coupon clipping thing seems to be such a touchstone for some women. It’s like, “Kate used to clip coupons and now she doesn’t” (except apparently she does). It’s not like, “Kate used to go to a Christian church every Sunday and now she dances naked in the moonlight and sacrifices baby lambs to Ba’al.” But I guess I have never been on board with the obsession with the Gosselins being “normal” (whatever that means) and “relatable.” They have eight kids; they have sextuplets. Really not that normal or relatable in my book.
I feel I have actual insight into things not televised. It doesn’t mean anything to you fine, it has changed my views in regards pre-introduction and today. The power of tv is strong and the power of PR is even stronger.
It seems really important to you to feel that you have some special knowledge or insight into the Gosselins that the rest of us don’t have. Maybe you do, or maybe you just have the same info that the rest of us have and have come to different conclusions than some of us have.
Reread post. A Catholic church was thinking about inviting them to speak but with the addition of a TLC PR team they became unaffordable. (snip) Can you explain why you believe Catholics would not allow a non-Catholic Christian to speak? How exactly is it against church teaching? I don’t understand why we need to bring J/K’s faith into this discussion. I wouldn’t accuse anyone of misrepresenting their faith. It seems that faith was one of the things that held them strong as a family. Let’s not besmirch that.
I think her point was that it seems unlikely that a Catholic church would invite (not just “allow”, but actually invite and presumably pay) to have J&K speak when a big part of their story involves fertility treatments that the Church views as immoral.
How does a mother and a loving stepfather act like this? Greed? Do the Gosselin children experience this money vs care type of greed? My eyebrow is raised.
It’s a very distressing story but I fail to see what it has to do with the Gosselins. If your story is accurate it doesn’t sound like a “money v. care” situation; it sounds like they mother and stepfather never cared for the boy and only treated him well to keep the father happy, and now that he’s dead they see no need to. Which is hard for me to believe, but I obviously know very little of the story. I just am not getting how it relates to Kate Gosselin not taking Cara to the doctor. She made a choice that parents with more than one kid have to make all the time. You may think it was the wrong choice but there seems to be plenty of evidence that others here don’t consider it an egregious wrong. Even if (a big IF) it was at all related to the taping, is that Kate being “greedy”, or is it her honoring her responsibilities so she can support her kids. I don’t know the situation with your custodian, but depending on the circumstances, I would have to say that I think she may NOT have made the right choice – to forgo pay to take a child to the doctor. It would depend on how badly the money was needed, why the child needed to go to the doctor, etc. It’s not nearly as cut and dried in my mind as it is in yours.
Sorry about the wacky formatting in my post above – for some reason my line breaks aren’t working properly.
I don’t know the situation with your custodian, but depending on the circumstances, I would have to say that I think she may NOT have made the right choice – to forgo pay to take a child to the doctor. It would depend on how badly the money was needed, why the child needed to go to the doctor, etc. It’s not nearly as cut and dried in my mind as it is in yours.
Wow! Just wow!
I think her point was that it seems unlikely that a Catholic church would invite (not just “allow”, but actually invite and presumably pay) to have J&K speak when a big part of their story involves fertility treatments that the Church views as immoral.
Except that we find that Jon was raised Catholic and Kate is non-denominational and they were going to be speaking on parenting large families. The Pope’s views and the parish views can be very different. This whole intolerance of religion is hard for me to understand and to accuse J/K of intolerance is horrible. I don’t understand why you feel the need to make up beliefs. His sperm/her egg and medical treatment are in accordance with most Catholics. The current Pope does not condone birth control but I can assure you most Catholics practice it.
I’m not sure why the coupon clipping thing seems to be such a touchstone for some women. It’s like, “Kate used to clip coupons and now she doesn’t” (except apparently she does). It’s not like, “Kate used to go to a Christian church every Sunday and now she dances naked in the moonlight and sacrifices baby lambs to Ba’al.” But I guess I have never been on board with the obsession with the Gosselins being “normal” (whatever that means) and “relatable.” They have eight kids; they have sextuplets. Really not that normal or relatable in my book.
So you can’t understand a parenting group that would like to find out more on economically raising a large family whould relate to someone clipping coupons, shopping during nap time etc makes no sense? Explain, please. You find 8 kids to be so far fetched? My neighbors have 7 and they are still in their mid 30s. My husband comes from a family of 9 boys. Average? No. Rare? No.
I am perplexed that you have no problem labeling J/K as biased in regards to religion but then in the same breath don’t see any reason for PR spin? Perhaps the spin used to be slanted to make Kate look bad to keep Jon on the show and now they have decided to spin the other way when the ratings slipped to keep the money train rolling? What if in the near future Kate cries foul on TLC for the destruction of her family in order to make the corporation money? She could have a case for being under contract that slandered her, him or the kids. What will you say then? What they thought was going to be a nice series on a nice family turned into trash tv to satisfy ratings and dollar signs. Who knows? Could J/K be laughing at the whole hoopla while cashing in? Could they be trapped in a contract and at the mercy of editing? Seriously, who doesn’t know that reality tv is very rarely reality? Adults dealing with this is one thing, children with no say is quite another.
As much as you would like me to “give the gossip” I won’t. It doesn’t matter, the truth will ultimately come out in the end. Why instigate an already horrible situation for the kids? You won’t accept the positive things I say, you call me a liar and yet you want negative comments? I am having a difficult time deciphering the whole point. You think they could not have been a good team and open to different situations? What is it that you are looking for? Are you trying to get me to “admit” they are bigots? It’s simply not true. You all keep throwing out outrageous comments of fertility, cupcakes, clutter it makes me think you feel that it may have some kind of factual relevance. Who care’s about their family planning? I don’t. Who cares about cupcakes? I still have no idea where that came from. Clutter? Seriously, clutter? How is cleanliness a subject for debate? I would think that would be a good trait, why do you have a problem with it?
It’s not like, “Kate used to go to a Christian church every Sunday and now she dances naked in the moonlight and sacrifices baby lambs to Ba’al.”
Why would you even say that? Where did that come from? The attacks on their religion is a bit frightening. The one thing no tabloid, tv commentary or spin has attacked, their faith and you have to make fun of it. Not very nice. No wonder rumors run rampant.
All kidding aside I’ll say if I’m Jon’s attorney I seize on this as a way to call her into question.
I don’t think Jon’s attorney would touch on this issue at all. Cara said the inury was two weeks old.. If Jon was with the kids at all in those two weeks, why didn’t he take her to the doctor’s? What would the judge say? The parent who did nothing about it is better than the parent who took care of it? And if Jon didn’t see the kids in those two weeks, I don’t think the lawyer wants to highlight that fact.
But I guess I have never been on board with the obsession with the Gosselins being “normal” (whatever that means) and “relatable.”
I think this is at the crux of some of the differences in opinion on the show. I never cared if the show was relatable or not. When Julie (Jodi’s sister) posted that the show wasn’t reality andd Kate had made a list of what she wanted and they built shows around those things, I was like “yeah no kidding. they have to have a theme for each episode.” Of course, I don’t resent people who have more than I do or go around judging whether or not they deserve it,
Seriously, who doesn’t know that reality tv is very rarely reality? Adults dealing with this is one thing, children with no say is quite another.
There is truth to this. The Gosselins are not living the reality they would have lived without the show. It has probably both benefitted and hurt the kids. But this is true of all families on reality TV not just the Gosselins.
Seriously, who doesn’t know that reality tv is very rarely reality? Adults dealing with this is one thing, children with no say is quite another.
Exactly- reality tv is very rarely reality. Which is why I don’t understand how people can defend or attack Kate based on the show. TLC wants ratings, and in order to get ratings they will make someone look however they want. J&K said themselves that they would be filmed for 8 hours and you end up seeing 20 minutes of their day- if that included arguments, that’s what got people talking. Shows that are “feel good” shows don’t get as good of ratings, aka 18 kids & Counting.
I personally will not waste my time going to bat for either of these people. I do not know them, and meeting them at a book signing, church speaking engagement, etc. does not constitute “knowing” them. Watching them on TV does not make me “know” them either. There is no doubt in my mind that one day the Gosselin 8 will write books or do a True Hollywood story about their lives on the show. They are the ones that know what their reality is & I’m sure their story will leave more than one jaw dropped.
Sorry about above post- only first 2 sentences were to be bold as they came from PP. The rest is my opinion.
Thanks!
Trixie, I doubt that anyone is waiting for you to tell whatever you keep giving innuendo to. I doubt anyone would believe you. I’m so tired of hearing “the truth will come out”
——
“I find it odd that you don’t watch the show because you believe the children are exploited, but supposedly met with J&K to discuss some appearances. Don’t mean to be rude, but that seems hypocritical. I also doubt your claims for several reasons.
Once again, reread the post. I said the little ones were 2 or 3 years old. They are 5 going on 6 so that was 3 years ago. I too thought the little documentaries were cute and informative when they were clipping coupons, Jon was working, having a sitter during nap time to go shopping. Normal events for most parents. Spring ahead 3 years and that depiction seems light years away and my opinion has changed. Can you explain how that is hypocrytical? You can doubt away about my claims(?). I feel I have actual insight into things not televised. It doesn’t mean anything to you fine, it has changed my views in regards pre-introduction and today. The power of tv is strong and the power of PR is even stronger.” ”
—————-
If you read the thread, you would see that I actually retracted the above statement that I made as I would never want to assume I knew your pov.
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I am perplexed that you have no problem labeling J/K as biased in regards to religion but then in the same breath don’t see any reason for PR spin?
No one labeled J&K biased in their religion. The discussion has centered around the perimeters of churches inviting speakers of a different faith.
——
It’s not like, “Kate used to go to a Christian church every Sunday and now she dances naked in the moonlight and sacrifices baby lambs to Ba’al.”
Why would you even say that? Where did that come from? The attacks on their religion is a bit frightening. The one thing no tabloid, tv commentary or spin has attacked, their faith and you have to make fun of it. Not very nice. No wonder rumors run rampant.
—————-
You can’t just pull a sentence out of context to challenge it. It was in the context of comparison to how people over-react to the idea that Kate used to clip coupons vs the here and now. Yet, you want to jump to conclusion that this is an attack on religion and how rumors get started. The full paragraph is below.
It doesn’t seem that you are reading the threads, just pulling things out to argue about.
I’m not sure why the coupon clipping thing seems to be such a touchstone for some women. It’s like, “Kate used to clip coupons and now she doesn’t” (except apparently she does). It’s not like, “Kate used to go to a Christian church every Sunday and now she dances naked in the moonlight and sacrifices baby lambs to Ba’al.” But I guess I have never been on board with the obsession with the Gosselins being “normal” (whatever that means) and “relatable.” They have eight kids; they have sextuplets. Really not that normal or relatable in my book.
Trixie, I’m not saying we are religiously intolerant–a lot of their message is interlaced with religion. There are LARGE fundamental differences in what they believe and what we believe. I’m not accusing anyone of being intolerant, not Jon and Kate and not my own church. What I’m saying is that it is very rare to a.) Have speakers at all in a Catholic church (unless it is to CCD classes, or the Newman Club, during Conversion classes, etc.), or b.) for those speakers to not be neutral religiously, or Catholic in faith. When it comes down to it, there are major differences, that when you are giving a talk with religion laced in, those differences would be taken into consideration. I’m not in the south, I’m in Ohio–I’m not religiously intolerant, I’m talking about the reality in my parish and my diocese.
I mentioned the other incidents because you were saying that taken together Kate’s actions would “raise eyebrows” essentially. These were all incidents that have been raised as points where Kate is a terrible unfit mother. I’m trying to illustrate the need to take everything in the context of the larger situation. As I said in my last post, in situations like this you have to look at things in the context of the larger situation or you start might end up recommending removing a child from a good parent. I was trying to show my own process in dealing with this kind of case, using what I have seen of Jon and Kate. I apologize if you think I was trying to muddle the issue. It wasn’t my intent.
Now, you have, in essence, called me a religious bigot, implied southerners are religious bigots, called others bad mothers, and used implication to smear Jon and Kate (I’m guessing Kate since you said you are in the Michigan area, Kate had the big Michigan blitz last spring, and there was ALL kinds of gossip coming out of that trip and as far as I can recall Jon has not been to MI). All in all, I think I’m done having this discussion with you. I thought I had been perfectly polite, but I’m afraid despite your protestations to the contrary you have not. It is Friday, I’m a four day lawyer (there are benefits to being self employed my boss is a bitch but she gives me Fridays off) so I’m going to go play with my dogs.
If you read the thread, you would see that I actually retracted the above statement that I made as I would never want to assume I knew your pov
I missed it, I’m sorry.
Now, you have, in essence, called me a religious bigot, implied southerners are religious bigots, called others bad mothers, and used implication to smear Jon and Kate (I’m guessing Kate since you said you are in the Michigan area, Kate had the big Michigan blitz last spring, and there was ALL kinds of gossip coming out of that trip and as far as I can recall Jon has not been to MI). All in all, I think I’m done having this discussion with you
What I said was it is unfair to even joke about someone’s religion. With all the hoopla surrounding these two I just hope we don’t add to more rumors. I certainly feel that in the regard to religion, I find them very open. I think it was one of the best things about them, and remember I am not devout in the least. It seemed to center the family.
There are LARGE fundamental differences in what they believe and what we believe. I’m not accusing anyone of being intolerant, not Jon and Kate and not my own church. What I’m saying is that it is very rare to a.) Have speakers at all in a Catholic church (unless it is to CCD classes, or the Newman Club, during Conversion classes, etc.), or b.) for those speakers to not be neutral religiously, or Catholic in faith. When it comes down to it, there are major differences, that when you are giving a talk with religion laced in, those differences would be taken into consideration. I’m not in the south, I’m in Ohio–I’m not religiously intolerant, I’m talking about the reality in my parish and my diocese.
See I don’t think, since I was corrected previously, that they are fundamentalists. Non-denominational church is open to all Christians. I just don’t understand why no one has ever heard of non-religious activities for mens/womens/parents groups in a church. We have them all the time. Now these are not in the sanctuary/chapel but in the fellowship hall. We have at least one a month. The purpose of working in a parish is to benefit the whole community. Has no one ever worked a Greek Orthodox church on their Easter and then switched? We do it every year.
I am so weary right now. My mom passed this past April and we have finally sold, or gave away, the house. I have spent the last 2 days going through a 4 foot tall pile of boxes filled with our life. Sure I have shook my fist at the ceiling and said, “damn you and your camera” but my mom had every single report card, every single art project, every single card we received by family, clothing from every year of our lives – one outfit per year. Every single santa picture, Easter picture, letters we sent her etc. When my grandparents died she kept every single card we gave them, every single letter we sent them. I am just so thankful for her and have cherished everything she did for us. She gave us a wonderful childhood and was our biggest fan through the years until the moment she died. Sure there were lean years, she sacrificed but we did not know we had lean years we just knew we were happy. I am trying to emulate that with my own and it upsets me to see other children used as pawns, money makers etc. I was raised to believe that when you have children you owe them the best you can do for them and should make them your first priority and should be logical, shelter, food, medical, education etc. She was not a SAHM either.
A Catholic church was thinking about inviting them to speak but with the addition of a TLC PR team they became unaffordable.
Sorry, Trixie, I don’t believe you. You seem pretty ignorant about Catholic teaching, which makes sense as you are not a Catholic. Why a devout husband wouldn’t know it is beyond me. A Catholic Church might invite speakers of another faith, but not a fallen-away Catholic whose marriage is contrary to Church law. The Church would also not invite a couple to speak about their fertility problems when they dealt with their fertility problems in a way that is contrary to Church teaching. Your comment is foolish to those of us who know Catholic teaching.
I will have to stop you about speaking about my husband like that. I am sorry but he is faithful and devout.
Sorry, but I think the husband is made up. See above (and below.)
But let me clear it up, he would check with the lay priest, Bishops rarely get involved in men’s/women’s issues in a local parish.
They do and they should. They hold a teaching office in their dioceses and would not permit speakers to extol the virtue of artificial insemination of church grounds. A devout husband, if he existed, would know that.
Also, there is no such thing as a lay priest. “Lay” refers to the church members who have not taken vows. All priests have taken vows, or they are not priests. The terms are mutually exclusive. Once again, it’s hard to imagine the wife of a devout Catholic making this mistake. I’m thinking you should have picked another denomination for your husband when you invented him…maybe Southern Baptist?
Can you explain why you believe Catholics would not allow a non-Catholic Christian to speak? How exactly is it against church teaching?
Read my responses above.
I have more reasons to doubt your stories, but I really am not inclined to say anymore about it.
I am regular Mass going Catholic as well. A non-Catholic may speak but it will be on a topic that has been approved and vetted. If it was a non-Catholic I bet it did go through the Bishop. No one would every book a speaker that used fertility treatments to speak about it. None of the groups that are active in my church meet outside the church. When thinking about it I had never realized it before. The Loaves and Fishes was the only group. I and a friend talk about that. She is active in her church and there are all kinds of groups meeting outside. So I am co-signing what other Catholics are saying here.
Also saying something like lay priest is like pretending to be a man and saying you wear size 12 pantyhose. It really is a wrong term in the whole Catholic world.
It seems to be very mean spirited here, calling me a liar for having a husband? Shame on you.
You Catholics then are very aware of Nostra Aetate? 1965 Vatican directive?
Apparently parts of the US are behind the times regarding interfaith groups so here you go, some examples that help us:
From a site discussing Gosseling speaking:
So have you ever wondered, “How can I meet Jon & Kate?” Well, wonder no more. Jon andfrequently speak at various churches and other groups around the country. So your best bet for meeting this couple is to attend one of these events. In the past they’ve spoken at places such as the Multiple Moms Mingle Group and Family Christian Center in Ohio.
Here is the link though I warn you some comments are not nice and should be discarded:
Here is the Catholic take on infertility, though why it concerns you all escapes me. Believe me if all Catholics were told they must hold 100% to Vatican dictates the pews would be empty.
Do you Catholics practice birth control? Should I call you a liar for saying you are Catholic? No. I live in the real world. Could be why there is such a thing a Catholic Adoption Services. I believe premarital sex is against all religions.
More education for Catholic – you are making me snarky for I have never seen such twisting of words to hurl at a person when that person actually says positive things about Kate/Jon. [Shakes head walks away to clean out mom's house]
from wikipedia:
The role of the laity in the Church includes , members of the laity have had to take on some of the roles previously performed by priests.
Priests in the Metro Detroit area are now overseeing a multitude of church buildings. We have a lay priest. He is progressive and we like him. Do you just go to church and go home? We are very involved in the church and love doing activities that enrich the WHOLE community.
They do and they should. They hold a teaching office in their dioceses and would not permit speakers to extol the virtue of artificial insemination of church grounds. A devout husband, if he existed, would know that.
Thank you for the kind words! You are aware of what is and is not ok with the Catholic church in regards to infertility correct? Pre marital sex is not ok but we still have teens having children out of wedlock and they are most welcome in church.
Perhaps you could google:
interfaith meetings Catholic You will find thousands of churchs across the country that do the same thing we do.
All you raised up Catholics must sure know about the edict of 1965? Nostra Aetate?
if you are ever in the Detroit area you might want to be very careful you don’t accidently attend a progressive Catholic church with a lay priest and find yourself sitting amongst people of different faiths.
Ann you are not a very nice person and I think are here to actually discredit Kate and make the biggest smear you can, the only smear that no one has made. Her faith. I am the only one standing up for her in this respect. She has spoken at many, many church groups and bias picking and choosing is not something she has done. Don’t peg her with it. You keep going on and on about infertility…….I guess that part really bothers you about Kate. Not something I even think about. She is a mother, like all mothers. If you theory held water then why would any church have her? You contradict yourself.
I won’t respond to anymore of your posts. You smeared my family, my husband, his faith and the Catholic church. You are also vehemently anti infertility treatments and the faith of J/K. To argue to such an extent that you know their faith is just wrong. To argue you know our faith is just wrong. I will say it one last time. I find Jon and Kate to be very open to all religions. There is a difference between faith and religion.
Thank you for the kind words! You are aware of what is and is not ok with the Catholic church in regards to infertility correct? Pre marital sex is not ok but we still have teens having children out of wedlock and they are most welcome in church.
You are correct. Everyone is welcome. It’s God’s job, thankfully, to sort out who is guilty of what.
It’s the Bishop’s job to see that what is taught in his diocese is not contrary to Church teaching.
There are non-Catholics participating and reading here who have little experience and knowledge of Church practices. You have stated a few things upthread that are not true about how things work in the Church. I see two other Catholics have weighed in to agree that the Gosselins would not be considered as paid speakers at a Catholic Church, and they have agreed with why that is so. The “speaking” that the Gosselins do, or did, included their story of how they dealt with their infertility. Part of that story is contrary to Church teaching, so a Catholic church would not sponsor the talk. There are a few things wrong with your account…and that’s one.
I won’t be teaching the Faith nor defending it on this thread. I will say, regarding this story: a lay minister is not a lay priest, so the husband could not have asked a “lay priest” anything. Whether I follow church teaching is none of your business, it’s still Church teaching. Being paid to speak on a topic in a Catholic church requires concordence with church teaching, and the Gosselins’ speaking engagements wouldn’t qualify, so the parish would not have been considering it. Interfaith dialogue is welcome and encouraged, so are charitable acts, and neither has anything to do with the topic at hand.
Remember, trixie, you are the one who impugned the character of both Gosselin parents by innuendo, among a few slams at other posters here. If you dish it out, you’ll have to take it.
My dh is a Detroit area business man (auto industry) and is quite devout in his faith. I have no faith (lol) and am not at all involved in church with the exception of charity work which we both enjoy. I will say this, neither of them were put off by a Catholic church invitation. I liked that since some Southern Baptist are quite against the Catholic church
Posted By: trixie on September 23, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Priests in the Metro Detroit area are now overseeing a multitude of church buildings. We have a lay priest. He is progressive and we like him. Do you just go to church and go home? We are very involved in the church and love doing activities that enrich the WHOLE community.
Posted By: trixie on September 27, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Trixie, if you spin anymore, I’m afraid you will hurt herself. It’s going to be hard to stir up trouble here, you are very transparent. You have been more than rude to several posters while grabbing random statements to make-up arguments.
I won’t be replying to anymore of your comments.
I have not smeared Kate’s faith. I have not even discussed it. I do see someone named trixie upthread taking a stab at Southern Baptists.
I have not gone on and on about infertility, though I have repeated that part of the Gosselins’ story is contrary to Church teaching. I wish you would have taken the hint early on that your story is not exactly believeable, especially before you made up the “lay priest” part. I understand your lashing out at me for exposing it. I will ignore the threat you posted if I appear in Detroit at a progressive church. I am not afraid! I have found progressives and people from Michigan to be very nice.
I really, really have a problem with the truthiness of the ‘lay priest’. I do go to a very progressive Catholic church. And I went to Mass today. I am Catholic. If I say go to ‘church’ then I am there for a purpose other than my Sunday/Saturday service. Because that is Mass, that is not church. I also asked one of the laity (as we in the Catholic faith call the numerous folks that have stepped in to help) what a lay priest is. He told me it was a figment of my immagination. So thanks for the nice laugh today.
When the subject is religion people do respond passionately and from the heart. Apologies to all that I will post and poof but I can’t comment when I’m traveling. This comment software doesn’t work with iphones.
Trixie, regarding Vatican II and the edict on other religions: Nostra Aetate deals with how we should treat others, in other words we shouldn’t hold their beliefs as heresy or wrong. It has nothing to do with whether or not we should teach their beliefs in our own church. Like I said, Jon and Kate’s speech was heavily religious and that would not fly in the Catholic church given our differences. This is not a case of discrimination, this is not a case of looking down on anyone, this is a case of we don’t believe it thus we don’t teach it. We aren’t discriminating because we don’t have the others speak at our churches, it just means we don’t teach contrary opinions in our churches. Nostra Aetate doesn’t mean we have to give equal time to all viewpoints, it means we don’t think that they are all going to hell because they aren’t Catholic.