Gymnastics & Baseball
9:00 pm
For the Gosselin kids, it’s time for some sporty fun! Kate enrolls all the kids in gymnastics classes and the tumbling begins. When it’s Jon’s turn, he takes the kids to a local minor league baseball game.
Never Before Seen
9:30 pm
Kate shares never before seen footage from the cutting room floor. The family decides to get passports for a big trip, Kate celebrates her 10th wedding anniversary with the kids, Jon tries to train the dogs and Kate hits the road for her book signing.
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52 Responses to Gymnastics & Baseball / Never Before Seen
I know it’s semi-cringeworthy
but Radar Online has a brief clip of Kate’s couch (chair?) interview from tonight’s episode. She gives Jon credit for “saving our lives” by having the invisible fence put in to keep the dogs home, but she gets a mini-zinger in, too. I personally think she’s hilarious.
I thought that zinger was hilarious too. He has said a lot of negative things about her and I think she was having some fun
Radar also has John ignoring the kids and doing his fence interview. I think TLC is purposely showing Jon ignoring the kids, more fuel for the lawsuit.
I’ll be watching – I’ve missed the last couple episodes. The dynamic this year has been depressing…….
I didn’t find Kate’s zingers at all hilarious. Telling us what her kids tell her about Jon is very spiteful and I believe will come back to bite her.
Donna, I haven’t even seen the episode yet, so the hilarious zinger I mentioned above was about Kate herself saying maybe she should have had an electronic collar on Jon to keep him on the property. The first 2 posts were prior to the episode being aired, and had nothing to do with Kate telling viewers what the kids say about Jon. Once again, we were talking about one specific zinger, out of Kate’s mouth, not anything about the kids. You may have just been repeating our words without meaning to indicate that we were saying everything she said on the show was hilarious. Since we hadn’t seen the show yet, that certainly was not what we were saying.
i liked both the shows. you can tell a difference in when jon is with the kids and kate. he seems to be phoning it in and she seems to want to make it fun for the kids.
i’ve said it before and i will say it again; we see minutes out of one day of their week…there is no way we can get see what is happening. when kate says things like *the pool was order of the summer…swimming everyday* and *at night sometimes i lay on the floor and leah walks on my back or the kids karate chop me and it feels good* i think they have a much more normal life that we don’t see…and that is a wonderful thing! and one that i wish people (ahem) would remember.
oh and one other thing…when kate talked about the dogs and how much effort and work it would take to train them and even the trainer was telling jon it would take up to 10 weeks (and jon was like not even looking at the guy) and then kate said that no more training occurred and the dogs just got worse, i thought here again…we don’t see that jon left those responsibilities as well as the ones to his kids.
we saw jon saying kate wanted the dogs gone and heard kate say that the dogs needed more than she could give them…but until now we didn’t see that jon neglected to do the work to keep the dogs at home and safe and who knows what else.
Kimmie, I can’t help but think that there has been a lot we haven’t seen about Jon… despite the fact that many who don”t like Kate have turned him into a super-parent. I have to give it to Kate for taking the high road this summer… I feel like there must have been a lot that she did not say!
I loved both shows, but my favorite part was Leah saying they would get a maddietard and caratard and a hannahtard and alexistard and leahtard. She obviously heard the word leotard as two words, leah and tard and since there was this thing called a Leah tard, she thinks the garment is a tard and each gild has one with her own name. I laughed and cried at the same time. Leah is such a little darling. And frankly I loved Kates zingers, especially the one about a collar for humans with the underground fence. Jon keeps trying to say that Kate is the one who made the decision to end their marriage. He just doesn’t seem to be able to connect his behavior with all these young girls to her decision. It’s so lame. Kate is such a trooper. Believe me, I said a lot worse when my husband left for a younger, prettier girl. A whole lot worse. think Kate is a very good Mom, under very trying circumstances. And I think she really loves those kids. I for one am really going to miss this show. It’s been my weekly happy moment.
i agree caren with all you said…and leah’s statements were very cute!
I’m going to miss the show too…though I have to say both episodes were marred for me by even having to see Jon. He just bugs me so much these days, I find him nearly unwatchable. I find it hard to give him a pass on things that I know any parent is guilty of at one time or another, like when he was ignoring Hannah in favor of texting on his cells. I can acknowledge, again, that all parents have those moments of tuning their kids out, but with Jon it just seems so par for the course – he is such a big, selfish baby. And seeing the paparazzi and hearing them mentioned as a fixture just reminds me that that is about 95% Jon’s fault – without his distasteful shenanigans, there would not be nearly the media interest in the Gosselins that there is. I see the paparazzi and the tabloids stories as such a huge negative in the kids’ lives – far, far worse than the show or anything that was ever shown on it – and that can pretty much be laid at Jon’s feet, IMO. He disgusts me.
Well we saw that in February (with the passports), Jon and Kate were reasonably civil still at that point. Except that Jon was being his passive-aggressive self blurting out where they were going when they had talked about not doing so. ANd then of course, Kate reacted harshly. I wonder if TLC showed that to show that Kate’s responses were often provoked in ways they didn’t show before?
The only part I wish Kate hadn’t done was talking about the kids saying Jon was on the phone all time. Yes, Jon has said MUCH worse about her. But it was not the high road she has generally stuck to. And frankly, the scenes of Jon ignoring the kids and talking on the phone and to the paps/fans could have stood alone without commentary.
That shot of Jon at the fence with his adoring fans, with his kids watching, was creepy. As was the bit at the ballpark, when he said something about telling the kids that the fans just wanted to “get to know them as people” ( I think that was what he said). Those kids should not be expected to do more than smile politely, or wave, at fans. I know a lot of people were concerned about the kids being “famous”, and having people come up to them, but it wouldn’t have been anything like it is now without Jon”s antics. Those kids shouldn’t be encouraged to to talk to people who approach them when they’re out, or in their front yard.
It was nice to see the tribute to Nana Janet, at the end of the first episode last night.
Wow something just struck me. Jon’s mother has an accident in the driveway and the next week the dogs went back because Kate made him. Jon was supposed to train the dogs not to jump on people and that didn’t happen. I don’t know if you’ve ever had two large dogs jump on you but I can see my mother going down under that force. Just my theory.
Caren, I missed the part about “tards”. That is so cute. I want to watch the gymnastics and baseball show again, I got to see all of the Never Before Seen show. I did feel bad for the one who fell at the game and then they only had a alcohol swab to clean his scrape. I was thinking that surely someone had water bottles around. Oh well, poor guy. I was impressed with how well Collin spoke on the couch. He sounded like such a grown up. I was also surprised that Mady and Cara had taken gymnastics before. How can it be if we didn’t see it? (snark) The kids looked they had a great time at the baseball game. Seeing Joel w/his dad explaining the game was really sweet.
I also liked the seeing the Never Before Seen one, but I could have done w/o the sniping at Jon from Kate. I don’t think Jon let it slip about Korea on purpose. In the Ronald McDonald house, when Kate fixed dinner, I think Kate forgot and said “Jon and Kate plus 8″ out of habit and then tried to correct it in a funny way. The remarks on the dog collar and Jon being on the phone instead of playing w/the children weren’t necessary either. I wish they’d both quit swiping at each other. The voice over explanations caught my attention because they were so flat.
Kiki, I was bothered by Jon’s comments about the children’s interaction w/fans and being at the fence. I can see him trying to make them at ease w/the situation when they are out in public, but their home should be safe from that sort of thing. I was so shocked that he took the kids to the fence and how he has let the paps get at his kids. Taking the children to the fence that day is something I think he did to get at Kate as well as put some money in his pocket.
Obviously this never before seen footage was pulled out bc of Jon halting production. And obviously TLC was angry (understandably) but the footage of him ignoring Hannah seemed unfair to me. It made it seem like that is the norm (which it could be) but at the same time, maybe it was isolated. There are times when I’m on the phone and my child has to wait for me to finish. It just left a sour taste in my mouth.
On the other hand I can’t really understand why he would go down to the famous fence and chat. It would be one thing if he were there alone but when the kids are there it just seems weird.
Remember at the end of last season when things were so strained in the interviews? Jon said he was tired of the fame and the paparazzi, and not being able to lead a normal life…..
I don’t understand why he seems so welcoming to the paps, all the time.
I really fear for the kid’s safety after seeing the show last night with the paps and gawkers at the fence. With the news stories today full of child kidnappings I am afraid that some creep could get onto the property and lure one of the kids, or even into the house. Especially with Jon encouraging the kids to speak to them. Jon is a disgrace and I”m glad that TLC showed his disinterest in the kids as he concentrated only on texting and phone calls, totally ignoring one of the girls talking to him. They should be safe on that property but because of Jon encouraging the crowds at the fence they are not safe. They never had to deal with the paps before he strayed so I think he is 100% responsible for the situation. And Kate was right when she alluded to Jon needing the electronic collar. She may have said it as a joke but it’s the truth. He strayed just like one of the dogs and look at the calamity he’s brought onto the family. I hope Kate doesn’t let those kids outside without her or the baby sitter…..not for one minute! Sorry if this sounds so frantic but I am really afraid for the children after seeing what I saw last night.
Okay – so you know what is still bothering me about last night’s epi? The fact the Jon looked at the packet (alcohol pad) that was given to him and put it on Joel’s knee anyway. Seriously, that had to hurt. They could have gone for soap and water or something. I dunno. It bothered me way more than Joel laying on the laundry room floor when he was sick – because his actions inflicted pain. Ugh. That was so annoying.
To me, TLC purposely used footage that makes Jon look bad. Good for them. The Jon defenders bug me more than the Kate haters these days. Seriously – Jon is spending how much on a NYC apartment? Is that really necessary?
And the bit about making the court docs public – what the heck is that about? Do we really need to see all of their divorce and lawsuit paperwork?
Erin Kate – if you can enlighten us a bit with your opinion about making that contract “public” I would really appreciate it!
I watched last night’s shows. I’ve seen every episode so far, so I feel it right to ride it out to the end. I’ll never understand viewers who claim they no longer watch, or “accidentally” watch, who claim to have a problem with TLC filming the kids, and still have such a myriad of things to criticize.
Lily,
I too noticed that some of the voiceovers seemed noticably “canned” and flat, like Kate was reading off of something. And, except for the show opening script, I’ve never noticed that happening before.
Samantha,
I thought there were several very obvious portrayals of Jon that weren’t flattering. But, like with Kate’s unflattering moments in the past, they wouldn’t have them if they hadn’t happened.
I agree, though, that Jon being portrayed as being on the phone all the time and ignoring his kids played too easily into the perception of Jon that TLC and Kate would love to promote. Kate taking something the kids say to her about what their father does on his visitation with them, and Kate portraying it as something that happens all the time, is patently unfair, and an all-too-common tactic of an ex-spouse who wants to be seen as the “better parent”.
How will that child feel knowing that they fed their mother the info she skewered their father with publicly, and it’s now documented as a permenant record because Kate repeated the assumption on the show?
True or not, don’t do that to your kids.
I think where I had a problem with last nights shows were the moments when there were obvious derrogatory comments by Kate about Jon. I’m not saying the comments wouldn’t stand alone as amusing, I’m just saying they are totally out of place; i.e., her kids heard them or will hear them.
Whatever our adult level of humor might be about Kate’s jabs at Jon — the electric fence, the Ronald McDonald House comment — I think they were completely unnecessary, and potentially hurtful to her kids. However seemingly harmless, this is the kind of stuff kids of divorce remember about their parents’ divorcing. And it never helps a situation. Hardly “high road” behavior from any concerned parent.
I won’t say Kate and TLC are completely unjustified in being tempted to drag Jon through the mud right now. Frankly, up until recently, they haven’t had to lift a finger to do so since Jon did such a good job himself. I’m just saying there are interests (the kids’) that should take precidence. Because, in the end, what will Kate or TLC truly gain after they’ve gotten their pound of flesh?
******************************
On a side note, I sat through a hearing in divorce court the other day and the judge made things VERY clear to the battling couple before him.
For background, the wife had sought, and won, a restraining order against her former husband for domestic abuse in the past. The husband, who had been undergoing anger management and other counseling, was concerned that the mother was waging a psychological war against him by “turning the kids against him” (two girls, ages 8 and 18 months).
The guardian ad litem made her report and reported the older girl saying she wanted nothing to do with her parents’ arguments, that it was “their problem”. (pretty good, huh?) Apparently she’d been getting an earful from both of them.
The judge looked at the mother, first, and said, “Whatever you may think about how wronged you were by your ex-husband, you are NOT going to get justice here. My first concern is your children, and there is going to be no decision I make regarding them that will ever be done in an effort to make YOU happy. Or your husband. I”m not here to be ‘fair’. My concern is your childrens’ wellbeing, and I really don’t care if that makes you happy or makes you feel like you got justice through the court system or not.”
He continued with the classic wisdom, “You have to love your children more than you hate each other.”
The judge ended by making it VERY clear he would no longer tolerate anymore involvement of the kids in the details of the divorce by either parent.
****************************
That’s what my feeling about Jon and Kate boil down to at this point. I wish they’d love their kids more than they hate each other… and more than they love what fame and fortune have to offer them.
Holy mackarel….sorry my last post was so long winded!
Cella- I agree.
I understand her need to “get back” bc he’s done and said SO much . But it still left a bad taste in my mouth…..
First, it’s my opinion that Jon is being incredibly careless with the kids safety. Especially letting people near the kids in public and letting the paps know where he is going to be with the kids all the time. There are some seriously disturbed people in the world, which we all know from some of the posters on GWOP. You can’t be wrapped real tightly if you hate and loathe a woman whom you have never met face to face. Trust me, I know a good deal about mental illness and it isn’t much of a jump for one of those Kate haters to decide that, if the authorities won’t stop Kate they will, and trying to either harm the kids (reasoning that they would be better off dead than with HER) or kidnapping them, with the thought that, after all, Kate deserves to lose them, she’s so awful. I’m really serious here. People who are unbalanced enough in their minds to hate her as much as they seem to do are entirely unpredictable in their behavior and if Jon doesn’t know that then he is too naive or too stupid to be allowed unsupervised time with those babies.
Second, Cella is so very right. Any family court judge will tell you that their first and most important obligation is the health and well being of the children and that couples can and are legally enjoined from making comments about the absent spouse, or asking the kids questions about the other spouse wen the kids are spending time with them. It doesn’t stop most people if they are really angry with the other parent, but judges do try to force people to put the kids best interests first. The quotation from the judge was so spot on. I hope with all my heart that Kate and Jon get that pretty soon and stop this nonsense. That kind of behavior will do far more harm to the kids than the filming ever could. I’m praying for them all, the kids and Kate and even Jon. Especially Jon, he obviously needs more prayer.
Sorry to be so long winded. I talk too much too.
I think that this is more than “loving the children more than you hate each other”. Jon has put the children in a precarious position by his courting and entertaining the paparazzi at his house. Along with the paps are people who he doesn’t know who are too interested in this family. ( I could never imagine having the audacity to go to a celebs house, what is wrong with these people?) I think it is good that TLC filmed that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is why Jon ended the filming. I think he realized that he was captured on film ignoring the kids while spending time at the fence and on his cell phone. I think he is unfit right now and should be limited to supervised visitation until he gets his head out of his butt and puts the kids and their welfare first. Like it or not, the TLC film crew was a safety net for the children. Now no one will be there to supervise and I don’t think Jon can handle it or wants to. His mind is on his Haley even when with the kids. As far as the remarks Kate made, they were mild compared to what he has said about her, and totally appropriate. These situations were being filmed and since it is a reality show her input was appropriate to what was being filmed. When she made the announcement at the McDonald house I think she was use to saying Jon and Kate plus 8 and her added comment was not meant to be anything but a correction.
I do think Kate made a mistake going to the press about the money situation. I think that should have been handled by the courts alone. I also think she was wrong to discuss the babysitter Jon had at the house when she was on the view. But what she said on the show, which it’s purpose was reality, I think she had every right to say what she said.
Cella, I enjoyed your post, especially the wise words from the judge. Hopefully all divorce court judges have that attitude.
I guess I would be the friend Kate could count on to crack up at her jokes, even when she’s being a bit snarky. She just comes across as so real when she makes those intentional jokes, with that quick wit and barbed tongue. The way she laughs after cracks me up too. The Ronald McDonald House comment (with love from Jon and Kate plus 8 minus Jon) seemed like an honest, funny, if imperfect, joke.
However, the negative comments about Jon that were specifically drawn out during the interview portion did not need to be in there. It did seem like a mistake to have that portion where Kate said the negative things about his time with the kids, Jon was shown doing careless things, and the voice overs seemed so clumsily added to point a few more fingers at Jon. It did seem like an unnecessary attack on Jon by TLC, with assistance from Kate.
Gymnastics and Baseball – 2 enthusiastic thumbs up
Never Before Seen – We would probably be better off if we hadn’t seen most of it.
Caren,
If you talk too much, what does my gigantic post say about me? LOL!
Also, I agree that there is an obvious lack of concern on Jon’s part about the kids’ safety. IMO, he’s been way too cavalier about the people he’s brought onto their home property and how much information he feeds the public.
For example, I think Kate’s reaction to him mentioning Korea while they were getting passports on the show last night was WAY over the top, and probably brought more attention to his passing comment than the comment itself would have. BUT, I can understand her frustration if security was of tantamount concern. It seemed he was more interested in pointing out fault in Kate than in concern about security for their trip.
(And, while it seemed Jon’s criticism of her not knowing the difference between Korea and South Korea was completely unnecessary and passive aggresive, it did seem hypocritical of her to start berating him so loudly in the store, only ensuring that the information would be heard by more people.)
Kate seems to be very careful about who her kids interact with when they’re out in public. Jon, not so much. And, while I can understand not wanting our kids to be afraid of every stranger, the Gosselin kids are meeting new people all the time and in huge numbers, and apparently have lowered boundaries for how to behave with people they’ve just met (for example, Collin wanting to hug the baseball mascots right away).
This basically means these kids are sweet, warm, welcoming and highly social. I wonder, though, with how much of the public so likely to approach them, if teaching them to be more cautious, without frightening them, wouldn’t be more prudent.
I think that’s why Kate’s on them like white on rice in public. She knows her kids will talk to anyone and they adapt to new people almost too easily.
Okay – so you know what is still bothering me about last night’s epi? The fact the Jon looked at the packet (alcohol pad) that was given to him and put it on Joel’s knee anyway. Seriously, that had to hurt. They could have gone for soap and water or something. I dunno. It bothered me way more than Joel laying on the laundry room floor when he was sick – because his actions inflicted pain. Ugh. That was so annoying.
I was just surprised that Jon seemed to do it so quick and harshly; it looked like he swiped it up his leg hard. It seemed to me that he could have been a bit more gentle and warned Joel, though I know people have different ideas about ideas about warning v. not warning. I see it as a bit of a trust issue and think it’s better to let the kid know that it’s going to sting, and then proceed gently.
From every point of view except “doing what’s best for the kids” I totally understand both Kate and TLC taking shots at Jon. From the “doing what’s best for the kids” perspective, not so much. Though I think TLC’s contribution to making Jon look like a bad father and an ass in general is really just a drop in the bucket compared to what Jon himself has done. As for Kate, I guess the humor of the bit about the dog collars softened the snippiness of it for me; the comments about Jon being on the phone seemed unnecessarily petty, though I’m not sure they were intended that way. I think Kate has trouble balancing “taking the high road” with being honest – perhaps this is particularly true when she’s in front of the TLC cameras, as opposed to in an outside interview, where she may be naturally a little more wary. I’m not so naive as to think that Kate has no agenda, but she’s certainly been criticized enough for being honest to a fault about her perceptions of Jon and the kids in the past, so I’m not sure that her comments about his phone usage were meant solely as digs.
I really fear for the kid’s safety after seeing the show last night with the paps and gawkers at the fence. With the news stories today full of child kidnappings I am afraid that some creep could get onto the property and lure one of the kids, or even into the house. Especially with Jon encouraging the kids to speak to them. Jon is a disgrace and I”m glad that TLC showed his disinterest in the kids as he concentrated only on texting and phone calls, totally ignoring one of the girls talking to him. They should be safe on that property but because of Jon encouraging the crowds at the fence they are not safe. They never had to deal with the paps before he strayed so I think he is 100% responsible for the situation. And Kate was right when she alluded to Jon needing the electronic collar. She may have said it as a joke but it’s the truth. He strayed just like one of the dogs and look at the calamity he’s brought onto the family. I hope Kate doesn’t let those kids outside without her or the baby sitter…..not for one minute! Sorry if this sounds so frantic but I am really afraid for the children after seeing what I saw last night.
Posted By: jan
I was bothered by Jon’s comments about the children’s interaction w/fans and being at the fence. I can see him trying to make them at ease w/the situation when they are out in public, but their home should be safe from that sort of thing. I was so shocked that he took the kids to the fence and how he has let the paps get at his kids. Taking the children to the fence that day is something I think he did to get at Kate as well as put some money in his pocket.
Posted By: Lily@IW
First, it’s my opinion that Jon is being incredibly careless with the kids safety. Especially letting people near the kids in public and letting the paps know where he is going to be with the kids all the time. There are some seriously disturbed people in the world, which we all know from some of the posters on GWOP. You can’t be wrapped real tightly if you hate and loathe a woman whom you have never met face to face. Trust me, I know a good deal about mental illness and it isn’t much of a jump for one of those Kate haters to decide that, if the authorities won’t stop Kate they will, and trying to either harm the kids (reasoning that they would be better off dead than with HER) or kidnapping them, with the thought that, after all, Kate deserves to lose them, she’s so awful. I’m really serious here. People who are unbalanced enough in their minds to hate her as much as they seem to do are entirely unpredictable in their behavior and if Jon doesn’t know that then he is too naive or too stupid to be allowed unsupervised time with those babies.
Posted By: Caren
Kate seems to be very careful about who her kids interact with when they’re out in public. Jon, not so much. And, while I can understand not wanting our kids to be afraid of every stranger, the Gosselin kids are meeting new people all the time and in huge numbers, and apparently have lowered boundaries for how to behave with people they’ve just met (for example, Collin wanting to hug the baseball mascots right away).
This basically means these kids are sweet, warm, welcoming and highly social. I wonder, though, with how much of the public so likely to approach them, if teaching them to be more cautious, without frightening them, wouldn’t be more prudent.
I think that’s why Kate’s on them like white on rice in public. She knows her kids will talk to anyone and they adapt to new people almost too easily.
Posted By: Cella@IW
and now it should be totally and completely obvious to everyone why the need for a bodyguard…i’m surprised they don’t have security at their home now.
Okay – so you know what is still bothering me about last night’s epi? The fact the Jon looked at the packet (alcohol pad) that was given to him and put it on Joel’s knee anyway. Seriously, that had to hurt. They could have gone for soap and water or something. I dunno. It bothered me way more than Joel laying on the laundry room floor when he was sick – because his actions inflicted pain. Ugh. That was so annoying.
Posted By: Nancy@IW
yeah like there aren’t any restrooms around to wash it out…
I too noticed that some of the voiceovers seemed noticably “canned” and flat, like Kate was reading off of something. And, except for the show opening script, I’ve never noticed that happening before.
Posted By: Cella@IW
i think it was because those were places where jon was supposed to be there on the couch with her and they had to fill in and wrote something for kate to read.
I thought there were several very obvious portrayals of Jon that weren’t flattering. But, like with Kate’s unflattering moments in the past, they wouldn’t have them if they hadn’t happened.
I agree, though, that Jon being portrayed as being on the phone all the time and ignoring his kids played too easily into the perception of Jon that TLC and Kate would love to promote. Kate taking something the kids say to her about what their father does on his visitation with them, and Kate portraying it as something that happens all the time, is patently unfair, and an all-too-common tactic of an ex-spouse who wants to be seen as the “better parent”.
How will that child feel knowing that they fed their mother the info she skewered their father with publicly, and it’s now documented as a permenant record because Kate repeated the assumption on the show?
Posted By: Cella@IW
the bolded part is mine but i totally agree with that. i think that there has been enough pictures of jon playing up to the paps, being on his phone, playing on his atv, dirt bike etc when he is home with the kids…i feel it is at least as honest a portayal of jon. and while i realize it may be tit for tat the things kate has said about jon aren’t anywhere close to what he has said about her…
and remember if it’s documented it was by jon when he said that mady can’t keep a secret and tells him what kate says. yeah i don’t see him as a fair player at all.
That’s what my feeling about Jon and Kate boil down to at this point. I wish they’d love their kids more than they hate each other… and more than they love what fame and fortune have to offer them.
Posted By: Cella@IW
agreed. i think this is how it should be BUT i don’t think this is what is going through most parents’ minds and certainly not these two.
I guess I would be the friend Kate could count on to crack up at her jokes, even when she’s being a bit snarky. She just comes across as so real when she makes those intentional jokes, with that quick wit and barbed tongue. The way she laughs after cracks me up too. The Ronald McDonald House comment (with love from Jon and Kate plus 8 minus Jon) seemed like an honest, funny, if imperfect, joke.
However, the negative comments about Jon that were specifically drawn out during the interview portion did not need to be in there. It did seem like a mistake to have that portion where Kate said the negative things about his time with the kids, Jon was shown doing careless things, and the voice overs seemed so clumsily added to point a few more fingers at Jon. It did seem like an unnecessary attack on Jon by TLC, with assistance from Kate.
Posted By: Mary
i think this is the only venue kate feels she can actually discuss some of these things about jon and his behavior. it’s their reality show and those of us who watch it have seen and heard a lot through tabloids etc. from kate (and jon) on their show we hear more of a first hand account.
i also think it’s appropo for kate to divulge these things and to get out some of frustrations in her own snarky way on their show because it was a show about what was going on during the filming of these events. i see it as no difference than when jon said them separating was better than them yelling at each other in front of the kids…in the end it was the truth and we heard it.
From every point of view except “doing what’s best for the kids” I totally understand both Kate and TLC taking shots at Jon. From the “doing what’s best for the kids” perspective, not so much. Though I think TLC’s contribution to making Jon look like a bad father and an ass in general is really just a drop in the bucket compared to what Jon himself has done. – Jennie
This comment and a few other like it sum up my feelings as well. Part of the problem is I actually really like Kate’s sense of humor and there is a sense that she has been taking the high road for a long time and she deserves to let off a bit off steam. That said, I agree that putting the kids as the absolute only priority, some of what was said and shown last night probably should not have been.
That said, I enjoyed both episodes. Particularly the first one, which reminded me of some of the ones from the past. The kids were adorable, friendly and eager to try new things as usual. I have to give credit to both Kate and Jon for raising kids that seem to have a lot of confidence and ability to deal postively in a variety of situations.
Lily, I really enjoyed hearing Collin speak so well on the couch too. He has certainly become one of the most articulate of the six at this stage and seems to enjoy doing the little interview segments. Nice to see.
I agree with so many points.
Some things jumped out at me:
The children are so grown up! The boys are really speaking well.
The voiceovers were flat, were being read, and the audio quality was poor.
Kate’s reaction to Jon mentioning Korea was over-the-top. Jon started by correcting Kate as if she were stupid. They must have been sniping about something just before that.
Kate shouldn’t even be asking “if Daddy played with you.” It sounds like she’s fishing for info to hold against him. I am one of those parents who think the father of 8 children doesn’t *have* to play with his kids anyway (even though mine did.) It must be awful for everyone to go through divorce. I believe these two had the best of intentions not to do this sniping stuff. Hopefully, they can both find that high road.
I loved the first episode. I thought Kate was very likeable. The kids are cute as buttons; Mady and Cara seemed to really have fun.
I thought Kate’s joke at the Ronald MacDonald House was just amusing, not in the same class as the texting comment. I thought it was a funny way to recover from a mistake. Cooking was such a nice gesture. I sure hope the women in charge of keeping track of her charitable work and “giving back” remember to give her credit for it!
Shouldn’t they be much more considerate of the fact that what they are saying is recorded and shown to the world? I hate that neither Jon or Kate seem to be considering how these comments will affect their children. The fact that what Kate said might be the truth or that she’s on a reality show is no excuse.
From every point of view except “doing what’s best for the kids” I totally understand both Kate and TLC taking shots at Jon.
Well, there was also Kate’s statement that Jon was the father of her children and she wasn’t going to say anything bad about him…..
Well that was a different show…..
Loved seeing the kids tumble!
Giggled at Kate’s remark about the fence….
I first felt showing Jon at the fence, on his phone with Hannah trying to get his attention was over the top then I remembered when they first split…. that is all you saw in photos of him (when it wasn’t with a mystery girl) at the beginning. Jon on the phone, walking around the yard alone on the phone, at the fence, etc. They did show Kate alone on the aniversary so I think it was a focus of what was going on at that time. I was hopeful that they would say who sent her the flowers?
I wonder if his mother’s fall was related to the dogs jumping?
It was cute to see Jon and Joel chatting about baseball. It did seem like a weekend father activity though by picking an “adventure” for the adventure sake and not something that the majority of the kids would like. I think they were to young to enjoy the game and ate everything they could get their hands on. They seemed to enjoy the freedom to run around. I bet Kate was on the phone to her friends…. “can you believe what he let them eat….. half of them were sick all night”…. I’m sure I would have.
OMG those children are so darn cute, from the tard comment to wanting hugs from the Characters, they’re such sweet kids! I am really going to miss watching them grow up. I love how they comfort one another and were proud of the ones that were able to pitch a ball.
I thought Kate’s comment about the collar was funny and even Jon should laugh at that. I also understand Kate getting mad at Jon at the passport office. Did you notice when he told her Korea was two countries, his lip curled up (he does that a lot). I would have been steaming mad. I can’t stand watching him anymore and especially hate the curling of the lip and the way he speaks like he’s spitting out the words. Have you ever noticed that Jon gets all excited when one of his children likes or does something he likes to do, but seems to just go through the motions of being a Dad during the other times?
When Jon was talking about the mascots, and said he hoped they were paid enough, was anyone else thinking that maybe he should look into that, because that might be what he’s doing in a couple of years?
Kate’s comment about the dog collars was funny and true.
Susan, I did notice that about Jon’s lip. If I were Kate, I would not have tolerated the way he talked/his tone of voice. Even if they were not getting along, he should be showing the mother of his children respect and that means talking to her nicer especially in front of them and the public. And, she should be doing the same to him. (although we didn’t see her spitefully throw something in his face like he did with the Korea comment).
Anya, totally agree with your post #28!
I am one of those parents who think the father of 8 children doesn’t *have* to play with his kids anyway (even though mine did.) It must be awful for everyone to go through divorce. I believe these two had the best of intentions not to do this sniping stuff. Hopefully, they can both find that high road.
I am so with you on this Ann. And, did you catch when he said being a father is his job, but this is too…and proceeded to greet the fans with the kids? That rubbed me the wrong way. First off all, your priority is your kids, not your “job”. The same job, you Jon have been proclaiming you didn’t want to be known for.
The kids are all so cute…as always. And, very well behaved.
I agree that the father of eight kids should not “have” to play with them. I thought the perk of having that many kids was they played with each other
. I didn’t care for the way they showed Jon on the phone while Hannah was trying to get his attention. I also didn’t understand the big stir when Kate ignored one of the kids wanting water pre-interview. When you have that many kids talking to you from the moment they get up until the moment they go to sleep, it is probably easy to tune them out occasionally. That being said, it is probably not the time to text your girlfriend. I did like Kate’s appreciation for her fans. If I was in her shoes, I would probably be full of sarcasm and cutting remarks for my husband….but, it is on record for all to see…forever!! The kids are adorable. I guess they are probably used to Jon and Kate talking to each other that way. I know plenty of people will say..”I came from a broken home and I am fine”, but I really think that the he said, she said, coverage of this family’s problems is unprecidented. I think it would be hard to say how this will affect the kids, when I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite like it.
Well, there was also Kate’s statement that Jon was the father of her children and she wasn’t going to say anything bad about him…..
I think she’s said a few times that she needs to take the high road. I think she has, mostly. She has not entirely. She doesn’t have a perfect record in that regard, I will agree. Considering his behavior and the things he regularly says publicly about *her*, I can understand how difficult it might be. No, two wrongs do not make a right, and she still needs to keep trying, but again, I can very much understand why it would be difficult not to take a few shots.
Shouldn’t they be much more considerate of the fact that what they are saying is recorded and shown to the world? I hate that neither Jon or Kate seem to be considering how these comments will affect their children. The fact that what Kate said might be the truth or that she’s on a reality show is no excuse.
Of course they should be more considerate of the fact that what they are saying is recorded and shown to the world. It’s not a matter of excuses for me. It’s a matter of understanding that human beings aren’t perfect. I expect and forgive a certain amount of bad behavior from others, and hope that they will do me the same courtesy. So I can “forgive” (not that I think it’s my place to really forgive the behavior of strangers who’ve never done anything to me personally) Kate for being snippy about Jon here and there, knowing that there’s been a lot of provocation. I can forgive a certain amount of bad behavior on Jon’s part; it’s just that he’s gone way past what I consider understandable or acceptable.
In the passport scene, I could “forgive” Jon for being bitchy to Kate about “it’s South Korea, not Korea; they’re two different countries” (though technically I guess neither of them were right, since the countries are North Korea and South Korea, not Korea and South Korea). She had already kind of attacked him over letting out the “secret”. I thought neither came off good in that scene and it was evident that there was a good deal of tension between them; that fight didn’t come out of nowhere.
I guess I don’t see what’s served by holding the Gosselins (or anyone) to such high standards. We all know what ideal behavior in a divorce case with kids involved should look like; I doubt many people in acrimonious divorces achieve that goal. That’s not an excuse, it’s just understanding. I think where we differ is how far we think one can stray from the ideal (if at all) before we condemn them and their behavior.
I agree, Jennie, when you said–
I guess I don’t see what’s served by holding the Gosselins (or anyone) to such high standards. We all know what ideal behavior in a divorce case with kids involved should look like; I doubt many people in acrimonious divorces achieve that goal. That’s not an excuse, it’s just understanding. I think where we differ is how far we think one can stray from the ideal (if at all) before we condemn them and their behavior.————-
The point I go back to is–they are both allowing TLC and different media outlets to document the minutiae of their acrimonious divorce. They are complicite in feeding the story. They were marginally famous for their show, but their divorce has made them infamous and punch lines. Of course, Jon’s crazy behavior started the ball rolling, but they should both be held to a high standard. They have both allowed what should have been a painful family moment, to become a public spectacle. I don’t care that they have always laid their lives out there for the world. They always said they would, in no way, allow this to be damaging to the children. The paparazzi never had an interest in the children before this, and I have a feeling if they would both shut up, the paparazzi’s interest would wane. I never thought that the show itself was going to “damage” the children. I think the documentation of their parents immaturity might. It bothers me when Kate won’t admit that the show might have contributed to the failure of their marriage. She readily talks about the stress of multiples, but won’t admit the stress a tv show might put on the family. So the kids can watch that down the road, and feel that if their parents hadn’t had so many kids, they might still be together. Nice.
I guess I don’t see what’s served by holding the Gosselins (or anyone) to such high standards. We all know what ideal behavior in a divorce case with kids involved should look like; I doubt many people in acrimonious divorces achieve that goal. That’s not an excuse, it’s just understanding. I think where we differ is how far we think one can stray from the ideal (if at all) before we condemn them and their behavior. – Jennie
I agree with this point, in general. I think what I’ve been trying to express about the Gosselins is that they’ve made this time in their lives public, when it IS so difficult to achieve the goal of “ideal behavior”. Plus, the public back and forth (whether outright insults or veiled jabs)between the parents can only add to the acrimony, IMO, which helps noone.
I’ve been saying since the first pictures of Jon surfaced in March with fans at a bar, and then through the decision to continue the filming the show through the divorce process, that I really wish Jon and Kate could see past their own feelings and truly understand the impact filming this sensitive time in their lives will have on their kids, now and in the future.
I don’t think there is anything to be gained for the children by having filmed (since the show is over) this time in their lives or having their parents speak to the media. They may have been privy to their parents’ bad behavior towards each other in private moments, which may have been tempered somewhat because the kids were present. But the fact that they’ll (the kids) be privy to the moments that divorcing parents hopefully save for times when their kids aren’t around through the media or the show (which is documented in perpetuity and seen and heard by millions) is something unique to the Gosselin children’s divorce experience, and, I think, does call for a higher standard on their parents’ part to, at the very least, keep it private.
So, as understandable as Jon and Kate’s imperfections are as a divorcing couple, I think these are the kinds of imperfections that they should spare their kids from being made public.
I was just surprised that Jon seemed to do it so quick and harshly; it looked like he swiped it up his leg hard. It seemed to me that he could have been a bit more gentle and warned Joel, though I know people have different ideas about ideas about warning v. not warning. I see it as a bit of a trust issue and think it’s better to let the kid know that it’s going to sting, and then proceed gently.
I think it depends on the child. There are children who become so anxious/crazed when they hear that something is going to hurt they work themselves into a fit and it becomes much more truamatic then just doing whatever it is.
We’ve always warned our daughter and been honest- telling her about going to get her kindergaren shots (6!) last year was horrible! Lately she becomes more frantic at the thought of something hurting then the actual pain itself, making it impossible to “administer” whatever it may be- even eye drops. Does that make sense?
I can’t believe I’m defending him but I don’t think he meant it harshly- I think it was a “do it quick and get it over with” moment.
I guess “that ship has sailed” in regards to what both Jon and Kate have let the public see so far, but hopefully the Never Before Seen episode will be the end of it from the Kate/TLC camp, other than what happens in court. Possibly Kate’s belief that she should be a “contract honorer” led her to reveal things on the interview couch that she’ll regret someday.
I still think the biting (some might say sarcastic) humor she shows, sometimes in front of the kids (like the Ronald McDonald House incident), is just her true personality, makes her interesting, and will possibly be part of her future in entertainment.
When the dust settles and the kids get older, if both Jon and Kate will openly communicate with and prepare the kids for what they’ll see about this unfortunate phase of their lives, that’s about all they can do at this point. Family therapy probably isn’t a bad idea, either, maybe even sooner than later.
Mary,
You’re right, the ship has sailed.
I just hope the Gosselins make less of their divorce public in the future and that what is “out there” already for public consumption doesn’t pain the Gosselin children too much.
Hello all, I’ve enjoyed the discussion here for awhile, but never posted. As a product of divorced parents, I had to listen to both parents speak critically of the other. I also learned things nobody should know about my parents from both of them. The number 1 thing I hated was being asked by one parent what the other one said or did. I learned early on not to say anything. It is so much pressure put on the children, who really just want things back to normal. I really think if parents want the info ask the other parent, but don’t involve the children. Children really just want to please the parent they are with. It really bothered me when Kate said she asked the kids what daddy did with them. It really just opens it up for the other parent to ask about the time spent with the other parent. If that makes sense. What they do with mom is nobodies business, and the same goes for what they do with dad. OK that’s my 2 cents. Thank you for the wonderful discussion and I really enjoy reading the variety of opinions
Hello, Seanna, I think you made a really important point. I cringed about that when Kate described it, too.
Cella, I agree that if they can’t be “perfect,” and let’s face it, they can’t, then they shouldn’t have anything to say regarding the divorce publicly. Media silence about the divorce IS a standard they can attain. The public may discuss the Gosselin divorce without it hurting the children nearly as much as what their parents do and say.
Seanna,
Welcome, and thanks for chiming in with your experience!
Can you imagine being in the Gosselin children’s shoes and having even a fraction of your parents’ negative feelings about the other parent made public, even if that parent was just “being funny”? It’s the only thing that the Gosselins have shown about their lives on tv that has ever truly made me cringe.
Ann,
Thanks, you managed to sum up what I had to say, and take up a lot less space doing it!
Seanna, I would disagree on one point: It is important to ask what happened with the other parent, that is our first line of defense in stopping things that go on during custody time that should not be happening. I know it seems like “tattling” or putting the kid in the middle, but where parents can’t (or won’t) communicate it is essential that there still be some kind of knowledge about what happens on the other parent’s time. Anything else would be irresponsible parenting. It is the other parent’s business what happens on the other parent’s time.
I agree with you Erin Kate. In my situation, without going into details, I needed to know what my daughter was doing with my ex and if they stayed at grandmas. The way I handled it was to ask and say “how nice” or something to that effect. I never said anything bad about him to her. We really don’t know Kates reponse , hopefully she took the high road with her kids. The whole thing didn’t need to shown or discussed on TV.
Well Jennie, you did say from every other point of view but the kids, so I just wanted to remind you that there is actually another point of view possible.
As for “nobody’s perfect” comments, Kate knew she was getting a dig in Jon when she said it – the line was too well rehearsed for it to be an off the cuff comment (and it’s not the first time she’s done it either.) If Kate says she’s not going to trash her kids’ father, then yes, I do think that’s what she should be doing. I think she should actually follow through on the things she says she’s going to do, instead of saying these things to help her public image. If the comment slipped out after finding out what Jon’s latest stunt is or in a moment of frustration, than yeah, I can how the “nobody’s perfect” comment could apply. But to deliberately and consciously make these comments? Then I think Kate should think twice before getting public payback.
Hmmmm…Can I add that I guess fast food, which was never supposed to pass her kids lips, is ok now???? Sorry, I really couldn’t resist!
“You have to love your children more than you hate each other.”
Cella, I wish both parents would practice this!
i was going to say something like erin kate said. i don’t think it’s wrong to say *what did you and daddy do today?* i really think that is how kate meant it. i also can see the kids…especially mady and hannah telling her something like *nothing…he was on the phone to ____ all day.*
and sue i realize you were kidding but since i know some people make a huge deal out of her saying things like that (and *we’ll never have a nanny*) but i think you have to also take into account that her life has changed so very much since she said those things. back then she didn’t have an outside job and taking care of the house and meals and things were what she did.
now there is a need for a nanny and the kids are older and doing many things that i’m sure she didn’t foresee when she made those statements…none of us live static lives. they are constantly changing…and so we sometimes do things we wouldn’t have thought we would do in the past.
So many differrent opinions …. my take on a few things.
I think the dog collar comment was not a big deal. It was sarcastic but not much of direct hit. Much more important to me in that episode was seeing Jon’s lack of attention to the training of the dogs. And I do think that is significant because he has been “trying” Kate in the court of public opinion about getting rid of the dogs. In the two incidents where he had paparazzi film him regarding the dogs being given back, he went to great pains to make Kate look bad. I think a much more balanced view of the situation is now available. Jon is just as responsible, if not more so, as Kate for the dogs going back given he neglected their traning. Yes, maybe Kate should have taken the high road and said nothing at all but I can expect behavior from her that I could not be sure I would be able to pull off under the same circumstances. And if I was set in public to be the fall guy over the dogs, I would want to strike back.
As for the asking kids what they did with Daddy, it seems pretty natural to me. I ask my son when he is with his father what they did. It is not because I am checking up on my EX but because my son has been away from me for days and I want to show him I am interested in his life even when I am not with him. Luckily, in my sons case, he usually is excited about what he and his Dad did and is eager to tell me. I think my son would be hurt if I did not acknowledge our time apart and ask him what he did. It would seem strange to ask him about his day at the end when I get home from work when I saw him 8 hours earlier but not ask him about his days when I haven’t seen him in 5. I guess it is all in how she responds to them when the kids tell her negative things.