By Anya
We had to wait a few days, but an eager nation has finally learned how the Gosselin family spent Halloween.
People magazine reports that Kate (dressed as a glamorous witch – I am sure many will poke fun at that) took the kids trick-or-treating in their neighborhood. People reports: Alexis was an adorable witch, Hannah a Spanish princess, Aaden a pirate, Collin was Spider-Man, Leah was a kitty and Joel was Batman. Cara, a ghost, and Mady, a devil, went out with their friends instead of their siblings.
The best part? Kate and the kids were able to go out and about without the pesky paparazzi.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20317604,00.html
Meanwhile, Jon and Hailey spent Halloween night at a pub (big surprise) trying to avoid fellow party goers dressed as fake Jons. I can’t say I blame him on this point. The NY Post declares that Jon is ignoring Rabbi Whats-His-Name’s advice to ditch Hailey. To which I say, what is wrong with a 32-year-old soon-to-be divorced dad of 8 hanging out with his 22-year-old ex girlfriend/best friend on Halloween night???
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/gosselin_igoring_rabbinical_advice_eRTZt2CevNKssFQbcGomQK
Meanwhile, US Magazine reports that Thanksgiving plans have been set: Kate will be spending Thanksgiving with the kids, Jon with Hailey and the Glassman family. According to Hailey, his only other option is to eat alone in his apartment on Turkey Day. As usual, Jon puts his foot in his mouth when discussing the Glassman invitation. Hailey channels Kate to give him a beat-down:
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153 Responses to How the Gosselins Spent Halloween; Plans for Thanksgiving
I am glad the kids had fun on Halloween with no cameras!!!!
I think the whole thing with Hailey talking about Thenksgiving was merely a set up for her to reveal that Kate and the kids are having Thanksgiving with Steve and his family.
Is this the first year the Gosselin kids have ever gone Trick or Treating? I thought Kate said it was against her religion.
I think it was Gwop that started that rumor, just wondering. I don’t think Kate ever said anything about it. I know when I started reading online about the Gosselins, there was a LOT of misinformation out there.
Anyway, who could know if it was the first time except the Gosselins themselves? Or if it’s ever been against their religion?
It just seems to me that there would have been a show about it at some point. And no pictures of this one either, though sosugary has every conceivable picture from every other moment of their lives at their site. I just hope the kids actually got to go and that this isn’t just media spin.
I think there have been many “unseen” events in the Gosselins’ lives we don’t know about. I think so sugary has a LOT of pictures of certain parts of their lives. It’s like they take 5 shots of the same thing, then 5 shots of something 3 seconds later. I can never wade through all the repeat shots. I think they do it to keep the obsessive Gosselin watchers on their site longer so they can sell advertising. JMO.
I think that it was speculation about J&K not trick-or-treating and their faith. I don’t recall them saying anything about it on the show. In the first show they went to the pumpkin patch and carved jack-o-lanterns which is part of the holiday.
I bet some were surprised when Kate and the little ones showed up at their door for treats. You just know they were adorable.
Jon and Hailey’s sideshow is just more of the same. Constantly creating drama to keep the media and paps coming is only going to bring in the money for so long. I don’t know what there is left for him to do keep the attention coming. I saw on ROL that Heller can’t represent Jon against TLC because he is being deposed, he’s a witness now. Jon doesn’t even seem to recognize what he is up against.
Ann & Lily,
You’re right, the Gosselins have never mentioned trick-or-treating on their show or otherwise as far as I recall (I never read the book), whether they do it or not. They did carve pumpkins in that early show.
I’ve known several families over the years in different parts of the country who didn’t participate in Halloween per se because of what they felt were evil or pagan influences. They also did NOT carve pumpkins. Although, you’d think they’d want to, since I believe Jack-O-Lanterns were originally conceived to scare off spirits on All Hallows Eve.
I got the impression there was some sort of hiatus from filming over the years from the late October through Thanksgiving time period. We’ve never seen Thanksgiving either, but somehow I doubt it’s against their religion to eat turkey.
We all know how the kids like to play dress up. I am glad they got to trick or treat without the paps following them. I’m sure they had fun.
Radaronline is reporting that those to be deposed for the tlc lawsuit include Hailey, and Mike and Mark Hellar. I think Jon just hung himself.
It’s so strange to me when people complain that the Gosselin kids have no privacy, and then turn around and complain when something happens “off-camera”! Just weird!
I’ve not seen anyone complaining about their lack of privacy at the same time complaining that something happens “off camera”. It’s nice to hear that the kids got to go out on Hallowe’en without being filmed or having their pictures taken.
what i want to know? how they did it w/o the paps knowing and following!
Donna, I have seen what Jennie referenced…not in the same comment, but by the same person in several comments. I have to agree with Jennie, it’s weird. In fact, it’s very weird, especially when it’s someone who knows when Kate’s nursing license is within hours of expiring. When someone is monitoring Kate Gosselin that closely, then trying to repeat gwopper whoppers about Kate saying something she hasn’t said, I just think, “Why is this person so weird? What is her agenda? It can’t be child advocacy, but really, then, what the heck is it?”
what i want to know? how they did it w/o the paps knowing and following! – Kimmie
Well, if Jon was in NYC, at least he couldn’t tip the paps off the way he has done in the past.
I don’t know if there are paps stationed outside the house at all hours? Maybe Kate got lucky.
I do find it interesting that the paps missed getting the Halloween shoots on Kate’s custody day, but got some nice candids when Jon took Alexis and Hannah to the movies. Hmmmmm.
well i think everyone knows that jon is friends with that one particular photgrapher…the one he seems to let on the property…who seems to follow him around (on the streets, picking up the kids at the bus stop). i noticed in the videos the guy has an accent.
Yeah, Ann – I see it all the time. For all that anyone who doesn’t fall in line with hating Kate Gosselin gets called a “sheeple”, it’s the haters themselves who are obsessed with all things Gosselin. It would never occur to me in a million years to go digging through public records to find out about Kate’s nursing license.
Thanks, Jennie. I know I am not the only one who notices these inconsistencies on Gosselin blogs. Thanks, Cella for confirming that about Kate and Halloween. It’s better not to believe everything you read about her on the Internet.
Kate has managed to get away from the paparazzi more than once for the sake of the kids now: the dude ranch, the balloon ride, the insect house, and now Halloween. I give her credit for trying!
Yay for avoiding the paparazzi! As much as I love to see fun pictures of the Gosselin family, I look forward to the day when there is a controlled way to see them again, whether on t.v., in the occasional Good Housekeeping or People, or whatever way is considered healthy and happy for them.
Totally unrelated link, and I don’t post anywhere else about the Gosselins:
.usmagazine.com/healthylifestyle/news/jon-gosselin-does-yoga-2009611
By the way, the reason I said I didn’t post anywhere else was to apologize for posting something unrelated in the Halloween thread, not to say there aren’t other good Gosselin sites. My writing skills need to have the cobwebs removed.
Hi Mary,
We are not picky about where you post things. It does not have to be related to the title in the thread. Sometimes we are slow in getting the latest news up and we welcome people posting the links.
Thanks for being part of Imperfect Women.
Thanks for the update, Anya. I need to slow down when I am reading, though. When I first saw the Thanksgiving plans, I thought it said that Kate and the children would be with Jon, Hailey, and the Glassmans for Thanksgiving. I thought, my goodness, how very Bruce, Demi and Ashton of them.
Bruce, Demi, and Ashton!Now, tht’s funny!
I believe you are right about that hiatus from October through December. And, I’m sure they’re not allergic to turkey, too.
I’m glad Kate and the kids had their privacy and enjoyed their time.
oh jon….it doesn’t look good for you hon! seems tlc was under pressure because of jon’s actions. so tlc is not the evil entity we’ve heard they are.
Several of TLC’s long-time advertisers complained to the network about Jon Gosselin’s “erratic, widely publicized behavior,” according to court papers obtained exclusively by RadarOnline.com.
These complaints and Jon’s continuing breach of his contract caused the network to decide to change the show to Kate Plus 8, the papers reveal.
An from Edward Sabin, executive vice president and chief operating officer of TLC, contains new and damaging charges against Jon Gosselin and his representatives.
RadarOnline.com obtained the information from the Montgomery County, MD court file in TLC’s breach of contract lawsuit against Jon.
The affidavit reveals many of the terms of the Gosselins’ contract with the network and details numerous breaches by Jon. And despite Jon’s claims that he didn’t have adequate representation, it states the contract was signed in June, 2008 “after extensive negotiations, during which the Gosselins were represented both by an
The court file also reveals that CBS has admitted to TLC Jon was paid to appear recently on two of their programs – also a violation of his contract.
As RadarOnline.com reported exclusively, Jon will be questioned under oath when TLC’s motion for a preliminary injunction against Jon is heard on December 14.
RadarOnline.com has now learned that Jon will be questioned by Paul Gaffney, a partner in Williams & Connolly, the Washington, D.C.
In h is affidavit Sabin also says that Jon refused to cooperate with TLC’s filming schedule and that on the day the network decided to change the show, Jon’s lawyer demanded release from the exclusivity provision of the contract but still wanted to be paid.
“Mr. Heller informed TLC’s representative that if this release was not forthcoming within an hour, Mr. Gosselin would object in public
The preliminary injunction sought by TLC would prevent Jon from violating the exclusivity, non-endorsement, confidentiality, and publicity provisions of his contract with TLC.
I wonder where A Minor Consideration is now when Jon needs him? Why isn’t Paul Peterson helping Jon in this lawsuit? How about Gloria Allred? Any ideas?
In h is affidavit Sabin also says that Jon refused to cooperate with TLC’s filming schedule and that on the day the network decided to change the show, Jon’s lawyer demanded release from the exclusivity provision of the contract but still wanted to be paid.
“Mr. Heller informed TLC’s representative that if this release was not forthcoming within an hour, Mr. Gosselin would object in public radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/11/exclusive-court-papers-reveal-advertisers-complained-tlc-about-jon-gosselin%E2%80%99s#”
This is where it just boggles my mind that women continue to fall all over themselves defending Jon and portraying him as a hero for “getting the kids off of TV”. I haven’t seen any of the haters respond to this allegation, an allegation I find all too plausible given Jon’s behavior and the layer of slime that Mr. Heller seems to leave behind wherever he goes.
As near as I can tell, being a Kate hater requires that you justify the most appalling behavior on Jon’s part in order to continue to make everything Kate’s fault, and when something (like this) is too egregious to justify, you just pretend it doesn’t exist.
Damn, I seem to have coding issues when I try to bold – in the above, the first two paragraphs are a quote, the last two are mine. Sorry.
I would assume they didn’t film the kids trick or treating in the past because it probably would of ended badly. 8 little kids in costumes with bright lights in there faces would not be my kind of fun and then all the planning to get a good shot of all the kids……disaster to me. Jon looks like he got himself in a little pickle with TLC and who will he hire to represent him? At least, he has yoga!!!!
jennie i tried to post that same thing over on qwop and it didn’t go through..so yeah, they don’t want to hear the real truth.
ok i meant post the article i posted above and i meant gwop. lol.
Heh, Kimmie, I think they think that the truth is only THE TRUTH if it comes from not-aunt Julie.
“Several of TLC’s long-time advertisers complained to the network about Jon Gosselin’s “erratic, widely publicized behavior,” according to court papers obtained exclusively by RadarOnline.com.”
Guess this shows what Jon’s “public apology in a holy place” was all about. I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought that the apology would nullify the harmful behavior he is being accused of and which got the advertisers all worked up.
Just a thought but could they get him on extortion attempts or blackmail? According to the affidavit, he notified TLC that he wanted to be released from the exclusivity agreement and still be paid by TLC and that if in one hour they didn’t agree he would publicly pull the children from the show. Since what he asked for had nothing to do with the children filming, it looks like black mail. In any case it looks like what Kimmie said is true…Oh Jon it doesn’t look good for you.
“As near as I can tell, being a Kate hater requires that you justify the most appalling behavior on Jon’s part in order to continue to make everything Kate’s fault, and when something (like this) is too egregious to justify, you just pretend it doesn’t exist.” ~love it Jennie…you could not be more correct!!
And thanks
for the pic of Jon doing yoga…Mary…that man just gets creepier to me by the moment…Sorry Hailey to talk negativity about your man…:)
and jan i think that any reasonable person could read that and look at the dates and connect jon’s epiphany with his lawyer’s threat and jon’s subsequent actions in removing the kids from filming. it shouldn’t take abuilding to fall on one to realize the connection…and the connection was not one in the best interest of the kids..it was to line jon’s pockets from other venues than tlc.
the thing i don’t get is that can’t jon see that if he had honored the tlc contract then he would have been able to do other *things*. kate did and she has been on many shows and doing many gigs besides tlc apparently with their blessings.
i honestly think jon listened to some people who told him he held all the cards and tlc would give in to his demands. he was obviously and detrimentally wrong.
An impartial look at the Gosselin’s divorce from a lawyer’s point of view. There are several months of observations here.
Just Wondering,
I have seen that sight. LOL Impartial, sure. There is nothing impartial about that view. Take one look at what other sites she links to. They are all sites that hate Kate. That is an opinion site and very one sided. Nothing impartial about it.
I agree with Gail, not remotely impartial, and just plain wrong in some places. I went over and commented on the Attorney-client privilege post. Privilege is not absolute, and she seems to have forgotten that because she has an agenda. Also, she states that the contract was overreaching because they were not represented by an attorney. In the most recent negotiations there was an attorney and there were several versions of the latest contract in which they were represented. In other words, she sounds like a lousy attorney.
i agree gail….and not only that but the posters are the same as the ones on gwop.
Also, forming a corporation to protect a family business just makes sense. It has nothing to do with being greedy and everything to do with good business sense. We often form corporations for large family farms in my area. Greed has nothing to do with it, it is about protecting the assets of the family and making sure people cannot come after you because they think you have deep pockets.
Erin Kate, thanks for providing balance to the legal perspective. I would imagine Jon and Kate were counseled extensively about the best legal and financial arrangement for the whole family’s benefit.
I believe the point was that in taking Jon’s money, they are in effect taking the childrens’ money, so what is the point? Are they just trying to intimidate Jon? Are they afraid he might rip the fabric of their “reality” programming?
I don’t like Jon, but I don’t like Kate either. I thought looking at this through a family law perspective would be valuable information. Wrong again, I guess.
Well then, what about David Zurawik of the Baltimore Sun? You know, the guy on CNN and MSNBC? Everybody thinks BOTH of these parents are morons. What is it about Kate that you continue to defend? I really don’t understand. Her High Road keeps intersecting with Exploitation Avenue, don’t you think?
I did a search on loan-out corporation and got this interesting result. He’s clear about not being a lawyer, but he gives good advantage/disadvantage info. He also said the rule of thumb he’d heard for when to incorporate is when your annual income exceeds $200,000. That was 1999, so of course it’s higher now, but as Jon said on Larry King, they made a lot more than that.
johnaugust.com/archives/2005/when-should-a-writer-become-a-corporation
Z on TV skews things as well. Look down the page in the link you posted where he talks about Kate’s dismal ratings. He mentions that there has been a 70% drop in viewership, however he fails to take into account that 10 million may be the high watermark, but it is not what the show has routinely been pulling in. The 10 million viewers is a fluke, and ratings currently are higher than they were the previous seasons. He uses this statistic to say that Kate is terrible and not a draw, thus she will be fired for low ratings. In reality, 3m viewers is pretty damn good for a cable reality show.
Also, look at the first post on that page, What Are You (sic) Favorite Moments. He may have a PhD in American Studies, but he can hardly be called a great journalist given all the typos, half researched issues, and obvious bias. My statements about that attorney and Z on Tv are not in defense of Kate. I have no respect for a so-called journalist who shows his bias so completely, and who cannot understand the basics of the language (I play “spot the mistakes” when I read anything he has written). As to the attorney, if she really is one (which I sort of doubt) she is uninformed on basic legal concepts (again, the privilege discussion). I just think that if someone is going to claim to be a professional, if he or she does it badly I’m allowed to call him/her on it. Just so everyone knows, I think the same of Dr. Lillian Glass, and I love to compare her take of a situation to Eyes for Lies. I trust Eyes for Lies more than Dr. Glass. If you are biased and you show it, your conclusions are somewhat suspect. I think all of the above mentioned fall into that category.
An impartial look at the Gosselin’s divorce from a lawyer’s point of view. There are several months of observations here.
There is nothing impartial about a blog that has links to Aunt Jodi’s sisters blog and GWOP.
On the advice of my accountant I formed a corporation at lest than $200K. And it has proven to be a very good way to manage income from contracted work.
One of the things that I think K&J wanted to do was earn money as a family. So the principals in the corp, J&K, signed a contract that paid the corp. The corp then provided food, shelter, education for the family. Jon wanted a paycheck and he said so. He wanted his own money from the contract. I would be shocked that TLC signed with J&K without insisting they have legal representation. TLC would want the contract protected from suit. If I sign a non-compete with an employee the LAST thing I want is legal representation. If I have a lawyer look at it then I can’t break the contract. And it was a lawyer who told me not to let him see it and not to let my employer know I had even called an attorney.
Oh and I live in Baltimore now. Mr. Zurawik is a very good writer but he writes to get paid gigs on TV. So he is exploiting the kids as well. I don’t think you can take a dime for pro, anti, Jon, Kate and say that you are impartial.
Sorry I didn’t read the other posts before I responded. I don’t think Kate is blameless or perfect but I do think the hate for her that is spewed from so many places is beyond ridiculous and does encourage me to defend her against the over the top criticisms. Likewise, the excuses made for and defense of Jon’s behavior beyond reason encourages me not to go out of my way to cut him breaks for that behavior.
I also always evaluate the position and motives of anyone blogging about the Gosselins. I honestly don’t think anyone is totally neutral on the situation … if they were why would they bother spending their time posting on them?
just wondering…if you want to provide any impartial sites for info then might i suggest not getting the sites from gwop? each site/person you have linked is a favorite of gwoppers. and i do recognize your name from there so that’s possibly why you chose those sites/people.
i don’t think this board is pro either of the gosselins…most of us just prefer not to hate one (kate) and excuse the other (jon) no matter how asinine and stupid (is that redundant? lol) he may be.
just wondering, I would take your posts more seriously if I hadn’t been made aware that after virtually every one, you run over to to a Gosselin hate site (not one of the major ones) and crow about what you’ve posted and how much you’re upsetting us.
First of all, I would not flatter myself that I was more than a very minor irritant, were I you. Second of all, can you tell me what you get out of being a troll? I don’t get it. I think most of the people here are interested in talking over the issues surrounding the Gosselins in a mature fashion, whatever their opinions are (and I do think we have a variance of opinions here).
I don’t think all non-fans behave this way. We have Sue, who posts perfectly reasonable and thoughtful posts on her issues with Kate Gosselin and the show (hi, Sue!). At the same time, do you think your trolling makes “your side” look good? ‘Cause I don’t.
So I don’t get it. Are you 11 years old? Just exceedingly immature for your age? Were you not hugged enough as a child? I don’t mean to be mean but I don’t see the point in treating a troll with any respect. It’s certainly never returned.
What is wrong with you?
jennie i wish i had read your post more carefully…lol. i glossed over the part in parentheses (not one of the major ones) and was looking all over gwop for the posts. gah…what a waste of a good 15 minutes!
I tried just wondering’s link and I have to agree it’s not impartial. In the blogger’s defense, I don’t think she’s trying to present her blog as impartial. She calls the Gosselins greedy in the headline. Why would anyone call that judgment impartial, even if she agrees with it? It’s more likely that just wondering didn’t realize what the word impartial means.
Erin Kate, once again, thanks again for the well-written legal explanations you provide for us.
I read the blogger’s explanation for why the Gosselins created a corporation. I think they were smart: tax breaks, and limiting liability in the event of a lawsuit. Kate did her homework to protect her family. Thank heavens the kids have one parent, Kate, who knows to get good legal representation and also protected their money in a college fund. I suspect TLC won’t be able to take the money Kate secured for the kids when they win the lawsuit against Jon.
Just wondering you asked the board, “What is it about Kate that you continue to defend?” It’s these kinds of things that Kate does that I have come to admire: securing money for the kids in a college funds, avoiding a relationship with the paparazzi, setting up a corporation to limit the family’s liability in the event that Jon goes off the deep end and gets sued. Of course, I didn’t get that last fact from an impartial legal blog. I just read the link you provided. Thanks.
Poor Kimmie, that was a WASTE of time! LOL. Poor thing.
What I don’t get is how the haters cry “greedy” when a corporation is set-up in a perfectly legal manner to protect J&K financially and legally (which it would stand to reason, would also benefit the children), but in the same breath they decry that TLC’s lawsuit against Jon is a lawsuit against the children. You can’t have it both ways, IMO. It’s a fact that the parent’s financial and legal security IS going to effect the children. This is something Kate seems to have grasped, Jon not so much.
I think TLC knows it is unlikely to ever get a dime out of Jon even if they win the suit, but he has really left them no choice. They are a business and if they can’t rely on their contracts meaning something, they might as well close up shop….
An impartial look at the Gosselin’s divorce from a lawyer’s point of view. There are several months of observations here.
There is nothing impartial about a blog that has links to Aunt Jodi’s sisters blog and GWOP.
I totally agree Paige! Not only does Aunt Jodi’s sister’s blog and GWOP throw up red flags on the “impartial” statement, but any blog or post that has reference or says “Moon” is totally crack. Nutballs are those people…Moon, Aunt Jodi’s sister and GWOP. They are not credible sources on anything.
Paige, I also identify and agree with your first paragraph of your post 45…Sorry I didn’t read the other posts before I responded. I don’t think Kate is blameless or perfect but I do think the hate for her that is spewed from so many places is beyond ridiculous and does encourage me to defend her against the over the top criticisms. Likewise, the excuses made for and defense of Jon’s behavior beyond reason encourages me not to go out of my way to cut him breaks for that behavior.
All of those stupid assumptions and lies about one woman is what makes me want to defend Kate. The stupidity in those people’s logic is irrational as well as the crap they post on GWOP and other hate sites and it is these lies that fuels all the rumours. Runours to take down one woman. They don’t have the decency to realize that she is a human, too. And, the mother of these kids. Advocates my ass.
Anya, Kimmie, the haters cry “greedy” because they are jealous. Bottom line. Jealous because they’re not smart enough to think about how to improve their own life where they would be in the position to set up a corporation. And, jealous over all with their little pithy hate sites and comments.
At this point, I think smart people realize GWOP and the other hate sites are just that…a hate site…and are not credible at all. They’re lies are not worthy of our time. Any site that doesn’t allow people with common sense to post, is not worthy of our time.
Yikes! So, I got the bolding right, but I’m all in red!
Sorry about that ladies!
I think there are two primary motivations for this lawsuit against Jon. I go back and forth in my mind which is more significant.
1) A fundamental aspect of TLC programming involves the filming of children. This is bigger than the Gosselins, they have at least 4 other prime time shows involving kids (18 Kids and Counting, Little People Big World, Table for Twelve, and Toddlers and Tiaras) as well as day time shows (A Baby Story) and several specials (Mermaid Girl comes to mind and one about a very tiny girl). So TLC has an interest in discrediting Jon as any kind of spokesman for arguing reality tv is bad for kids in general. They need to prove his motives for making that claim were self serving and not sincere. This neutralizes Jon Gosselins ability to hurt the viability of the network as a whole.
2) On LKL, around the time Jon took his stand against TLC, Heller and Jon made claims against TLC. I thought what Heller was trying to do at the time was to set the stage for a Gosselin lawsuit against TLC. That was what Heller was arguing about in the court of public opinion. They spoke of how much money the network made last quarter and tried to attributeit to the Gosselin phenonenon. They spoke of how little the Gosselins actually got paid and mentioned that the kids were not paid individually. They claimed that the Gosselins did not have a lawyer when they negotiated the contract.
Heller wanted Jon to be the David against the huge Golaith of TLC. I think they thought it would help their cause if Kate was on board hence the first talk about wanting to make things right with Kate. TLC saw that show and moved quickly to neutralize any effect this strategy by filing the suit against Jon. TLC now doesn’t have to be on the defensive side in lawsuit and worry about anti-corporation sympathetic jury
No worries, Theresa. I saw the formatting issues, but was able to read your post just fine.
We think alike on many matters…!
just popping in amid house rehab.
Didn’t one of the people we haven’t seen in a while make all the kid’s costumes? The older lady who used to sit? I would think it’s easier to not be filmed by camera men if you don’t have your own crew trailing you. Want to find someone being filmed? Look for the crew. They are pretty easy to see. I would not put it past TLC to tip off camera men either. Their shows are becoming quite a formula. With wedding renewals, trips to Kleinfelds etc. I don’t watch TLC anymore because I feel they have become trash and it’s not my cup of tea. With that said, rumor has it that Little People parents are seemingly going through the same thing. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
About incorporating a family. Smart thing to do. We did. The biggest issue is that if something happens to one or both of us the remaining shareholders have rights to the shares. Cuts down on the legalities if someone dies. Best way to protect your kids.
I am on Kates side completely and don’t have a problem with admitting it. I thought she was too hard on Jon, back when we didn’t know they were having problems. But since the real Jon has come out, I don’t blame her at all. In fact, I don’t know how she stood the man. I think some of the things that were filmed, like the tup with poop stuck etc. was wrong and I would have told TLC not to film that. I also would never have told that Cara curled up into a ball, after being told of the divorce. I’m a sensitive person and understand that those things could be embarrassing for the children involved. But, that sensitivity would be detrimental in other areas if I were Kate. I would completely let loose during some of those interviews. I wouldn’t be able to keep my mouth shut on some of the awful things Jon has done. She has my upmost respect for the way she chooses her words and always keeps herself in check, because Jon is the Father of her children.
Btw, I would have loved to have seen a photo of the kids in costume, but it’s really great that we didn’t get to.
Anne, gwopper whoppers = hilarious!
David Zurawik is asking to hear about the viewers’ favorite moments. Would you care to participate?
Also, if you would like your blog linked to the Gosselin Divorce site, why don’t you speak to the administrator? Don’t bash other people just because they have asked the same.
Just Wondering, did you read read post 47? I would be interested in your responses.
Why would this site want to be linked to the Gosselins Divorce site? I am not part of the group who created this site but, even as a relative newcomer, I can figure out the people who chose to name their group “Imperfect Women” are not here to blindly hate on anyone – including Kate Gosselin. To even be listed on the same page as GWOP or Aunt Jodi’s Sister page is a disturbing thought — why tar the image of this site by associating with haters?
Regarding the Gosselin divorce site….
1) I find it interesting that it’s being touted as a blogger who is an attorney. From what I can see, this person has not done anything more than claim some legal knowledge and certainly hasn’t come out from behind the veil of anonymity to prove they have any more knowledge than any other person out there who knows how to use Google.
2) I’ve already read some inconsistencies at this blog regarding attorneys being deposed (not unheard of by any means) and attorney-client privilege. And, since case law differs from state to state, these blanket statements are NOT statements any real attorney would make.
3) It’s pretty obvious there is some blatant prejudice in this blogger’s writing against the Gosselins and TLC. The labeling of the practice of forming a corporation to protect the individuals in a business as GREEDY is especially telling, coming from an attorney, since all attorneys form Professional Associations as private practitioners (don’t work for a government entity) to protect themselved from PERSONAL liability and for tax benefits. (The IRS frowns on this practice??? Since when??) Attorneys are constant targets for personal lawsuits themselves. I can’t see one of their own arguing against personal protections through incorporating.
Like Anya mentioned, forming the corporation protects the assets of BOTH parents, and, in turn, the Gosselin children, from losing everything in the event of a judgement where they, the parents, might be found liable. As an example, a crew member, nanny, helper or a paparazzi (invited on the Gosselin property), could easily sue them if they tripped and fell and were injured while on their property. Without the corporation, the Gosselin children could easily be made homeless by ANY person with a legal gripe against their parents.
I will say, I agree TLC may be required to go through the step of suing the corporation in order to get to sue Jon individually. They would obviously have to make a legal argument that, since Jon breached the contract, they need to separate his interests from the rest of the family’s.
But, as far as trying to insinuate that TLC is hoping to empty the Gosselins’ coffers and leave the Gosselin children homeless, that’s obviously the intellectual stretch of a legal amateur.
One last thought…
There is not an attorney I know who is going to blog anonymously giving out FREE legal “opinions” based on nothing more than general definitions of legal terms or generalities about judicial decisions.
As anonymous as the lay person thinks the Internet is, a practicing attorney is only too well aware of how the reality of the Internet is just the opposite. I can’t fathom a REAL attorney putting writings that are “out there” in cyberspace, forever permanent, on a Blogger server, who would logically assume no one would ever find out who they were. Especially if something they said had legal ramifications.
And, the final straw for me, I don’t know an attorney, who would have enough time to watch tv consistently, who would have any interest in the Gosselin blogosphere or tabloid fodder, and who would take the time to blog about the Gosselins’ divorce. It just doesn’t make sense.
Why is it that people are so ready to believe ANYTHING written on the Internet as long as it supports their hate agenda, despite all their claims of intellect and discernment?
Cella – TLC probably does not have to sue the corp. First, corporations are a very weak place to hide from liability. Any lawyer worth his salt can debunk a corp as a shell. Where I live a corporation must have an annual meeting yearly and the minutes of said meeting are signed and notarized. No minutes? No meeting? No legal corp. I don’t have any experience with the IRS caring about those little fine points but I’ve watched attorneys kill a corp in the first 60 minutes of the law suit and open the door to go after personal assests. Second they do NOT protect an individual’s activity outside of the corporation. So if someone sued Jon for his children being filmed the corporation would come into play. If someone sued Jon for non payment of rent on his apartment when the lease was signed by Jon the individual the corporation is not liable. So TLC is suing Jon and it is a really fine point whether the corporation is liable for Jon behaving like a douche or for Jon not living up to the terms of the contract. It will be interesting to see how the law interprets these things in this instance.
I had more time to click around the Gosselin divorce blog today and these two entries piqued my interest.
gosselindivorce.blogspot.com/2009/10/tlc-look-up-contract-laws-children-cant.html
gosselindivorce.blogspot.com/2009/10/tlc-brazenly-airs-new-episode-has.html
These are two of the few places she attempts to analyze legal aspects of the cases. However, she only has very basic understanding of the law. Contracts that a MINOR MAKES are voidable at the insistence of the minor. The Gosselin children are not parties to the contract. Here the parents hold the contract with TLC, and the minor children do not. Parents have the ability to make contracts that affect the whole family. How else do Hollywood children continue to work? All these kids on TV? I really suspect that she is not an attorney.
Jennie.. The only thing I get out of post #47 is that you associate with IWHY. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you.
I usually don’t participate in the Gosselin threads anymore but I do read all comments that come in for this site and I am not going to let the last one go without responding.
Just Wondering,
You are so far off base with comment 63 it isn’t even funny.
Now I have a few things I want to say.
Could you use one screen name and stick with it? Could you stop bashing the people that are posting here? Post your opinion and be done with it. Is it necessary to go on other sites and direct people to what you have posted here and then think that you have scored some major points.
Try just discussing the topic. Better yet, if what is posted here bothers you so much, maybe you should take this site off of your favorites and try to resist the urge to click on Imperfect Women. You obviously dislike this site and it seems to make you very angry. Everyone appears to have a place that is comfortable to post their thoughts and opinions in the internet Gosselin blogging world and this may not just be the best place for you.
Have a good day.
IWHY? What is that? Just curious.
Marie,
I hear what you’re saying.
I don’t know if Jon and Kate signed the TLC contract as individuals, but I’m not familiar with how they would protect their earnings as a corporation if they couldn’t or didn’t sign the contract as a corporation.
In other words, could they have signed it as an entertainment “entity”, i.e., as principles of the corporation?
Honestly, it’s not all that earth shatteringly important for me to know. I simply found it another eye-rolling annoyance that this new Gosselin blogger was being put forward as some kind of legal expert.
Did the gwoppers, et al, learn nothing from the PennMommy experience?
IWHY? What is that? Just curious.
Marie,
She’s a blogger who makes fun of GWOP by giving them a taste of their own medicine…basically over-the-top criticism of their “child advocacy” through parody.
I haven’t checked her site in a long time, but I know she did a good job annoying the heck out of them, mostly because they have no sense of self-awareness.
Could you use one screen name and stick with it?
Not even brave enough to stand behind the opinion of your anonymous screen name???
Sounds like a troll to me.
One thing really bothers me about situations like this. The idea that bad behavior on one person’s part condones bad behavior on someone elses. It is my opinion that both of them are playing the PR game and it is not nice especially since they have kids. Our local newscaster even said that his thought was that this whole thing is a bigger sham than balloon boy incident.
Now I can’t even watch that channel, I can’t buy mags for the gym. Sheeeeeeesh! Doing 30 minutes of cardio is boring with House Beautiful.
Trixie,
I agree with you. I think I’ve said since the very beginning of this divorce saga that I wished the Gosselin parents would both stop making such a public spectacle for their kids’ sake.
Taylor Swift and SNL take on Kate and The View-http://www.hulu.com/watch/107511/saturday-night-live-the-view
Also, People magazine has a whole page devoted to celebs dressed as J&K for Halloween.
And, Entertainment Weekly noted the passing of Nana Janet. I hope her family hasn’t been bothered too much. I’m sure they’ve gotten some nice notes from fans, but I also imagine they’ve heard from people demanding to know how J&K have reacted to her death.
One thing really bothers me about situations like this. The idea that bad behavior on one person’s part condones bad behavior on someone elses.
I agree, trixie. Kate should not get a pass on talking too much just because, by comparison, Jon is 100x worse (I wish I was exaggerating.) Jon deserves 100x the criticism as Kate, but I think those who think the divorce ahould be private should hold both parents to the standard. I know most of us here do. And those who have defended Kate’s interviews usually state that she shouldn’t do more than defend herself against false accusations (cheating rumors, etc.) On the same topic, the Kreiders should be called out for selling interviews that kept sordid stories (or introduced new rumors) in the tabloids.
Now, are there going to be any more Jon & Kate + 8 shows this season?
Thanks for the link to the SNL skit. I thought it was going to be a whole lot worse a mockery of Kate given what I have read other places. It seems to me they made far more fun of the regulars on the The View than Kate Gosselin. I did get a good chuckle from it,
http://gwop-without-pity.blogspot.com/
Marie. This is IWHY. Anyone associated with this woman needs to be rewired.
Good heavens, just wondering, you’re at the wrong site. We all have computers. We all have Internet access. We can all find our way around Google and the Gosselin blogs just fine. We don’t need to be “schooled” in the TRUTH about the Gosselins or the sites discussing them. You don’t have an invisibilty cloak when you are posting hither, thither, and yon. Keep your conspiracy theories off the imperfectwomen.com threads, please. Thank you.
I agree, trixie. Kate should not get a pass on talking too much just because, by comparison, Jon is 100x worse (I wish I was exaggerating.) Jon deserves 100x the criticism as Kate
I was thinking it both ways. She humiliated him, but that does not allow post-humiliation behavior. I remember when they told how they met and they said something like they met at a picnic and he was with another girl and Kate said to herself that she would be with him……and the next day they were together. Such a telling story! We can see the root right there. Kate wanted to control the situation and Jon dropped one girl and quickly took up with another. He didn’t work steadily when they met and he would drop everything to snowboard around the country. All the clues were right there. He was close with his family and she was not. So many signs or as my high school Marriage and Family teacher would say, not compatible. I may have to dig her up and tell her she was right on! They do have immaturity in common. They both want to be in the movies. LOL. Good luck with that. Most actors work on their craft for years but you both just walk on in and get a role on a movie.
just wondering: Iwhy is no worse than say Bohemian Moon or Dirty Disher. Also, I didn’t have to go to Iwhy to find out where you hang out, it took all of 5 minutes clicking around on the internet to find it. P.S. What does it say about your life that you were here to troll today when you had grandchildren and a hurt husband at home? Also, if a kid is making a picture of monster Kate, that means that the parent’s obsession has invaded the kid’s life, and that is just sick and wrong–not funny (and you can run back home and quote me).
Trixie, I actually agree with you on the movie front. I really hope that neither one is ever in a movie. At some point you are just too exposed to ever hope to be convincing in a movie. I know they aren’t huge names like Ryan Seacrest, but he’s the example I would use. He is too visible as himself to ever convincingly play anything but himself. Lauren Conrad is probably a better comparison. I’m fine with Kate getting some kind of show on her own, but for all that is holy I would prefer they stay out of movies.
Hummmm, many different opinions here lately. I may not always agree with someone and I understand I don’t have to.
I haven’t visited many other Gosselin sites, don’t really care to after running into the GWOP site. That site was just wrong….. I was last there about a year ago. Some poor woman made comments about how ugly some of the comments were and got blasted…. it did not seem to be a site of equal opinion. To me is seemed like no matter what Kate did it was wrong….everything was her fault….. calling her Khate was definately a sign of what they were all about. I think she is a hard core shrud woman….. knows what she wants and isn’t afraid to say it, harsh, was very hard on Jon (and now I see he probably needed direction, but maybe not that much) and very controlling of the day to day events. I actually envied her organizaitonal skills…… but truly with 8 kids, you’d have to be organized. Anyway, I stopped reading the site way before the Gosselin world hit tabloid city….. stopped popping in on “Julie’s” hate Kate site before that after it turned into a hate site also…. it just didn’t seem to make sence that she only thought the Gosselin kids needed rescued.
I look at it this way…. if I don’t like a site, I don’t have to visit it. Maybe those who think this site needs to hate on Kate alittle bit more might not want to visit here….. it’s not a hate site, but it’s a free net go ahead and post but it’s doubtful that these women here will just follow blindly.
trixie, I don’t agree with your interpretation of that romance as Kate wanting to be in control. It seems to me they were recalling how “sparks flew” between them, as they sometimes do. My brother has a very solid marriage to a wonderful woman. They met while she had a boyfriend. The night they met, sparks flew, and that was that. Actually, the same was true for my parents. My dad met my mom because his friend was “courting” her. Well, his friend was out of luck, my parents clicked. Thankfully, Mom preferred her beau’s best friend. So the story of the Gosselins meeting while Jon had a girlfriend is not all that unusual.
I do agree that they are incompatible. Jon clearly clicks with much younger women without a lot of direction in life. Kate would probably do better with an older, confident, successful man, IMO.
I also can’t imagine a movie Kate could be in either. What would they do with her hair, lol? I do think the cartoon voice is a possibility, or a daytime talk show, or endorsements of “mom” type products. Whatever happens, I sure hope she is able to keep stability in the kids’ lives for their sakes.
Jennie.. The only thing I get out of post #47 is that you associate with IWHY. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you.
What does that even mean – “associate”? Do you mean it in a “fellow traveler” kind of way? Are you Joseph McCarthy? Or maybe you mean it in a Gambino/Genovese/Gotti kind of way – “Serena sleeps with the fishes”, and all that?
For the record, I don’t think I could be said to “associate” with Iwhy by any definition of the word. I happened to visit her site today (got bored waiting for a movie to start – jeez, tell you it’s starting at 11:10, and at 11:30 they aren’t even done with the previews – so annoying!) on my phone; the last time I was there was maybe a month or more ago. I don’t post there. I’ve never corresponded with Iwhy and have no idea who she is. I find her damn funny but occasionally too mean for my tastes. I get her whole credo (“I wonder how you like it”), but I’m aware – have been aware from the beginning of blogging about the Gosselins – that descending to the depths of the haters is not the answer.
The only reason I’m aware that you’re a troll is because people tell me things. You’re quite open about it, so either you want to be called out or you really don’t understand how the internet works. I don’t really care which it is, but I don’t like the fact that people post here and read here taking your posts on face value and don’t realize that you’re nothing but a troll. You’re welcome to post here (to my mind, at least), if you can do so without play games. I doubt you’re capable of that, though.
trixie, I don’t agree with your interpretation of that romance as Kate wanting to be in control. It seems to me they were recalling how “sparks flew” between them, as they sometimes do. My brother has a very solid marriage to a wonderful woman. They met while she had a boyfriend. The night they met, sparks flew, and that was that. Actually, the same was true for my parents. My dad met my mom because his friend was “courting” her. Well, his friend was out of luck, my parents clicked. Thankfully, Mom preferred her beau’s best friend. So the story of the Gosselins meeting while Jon had a girlfriend is not all that unusual.
You don’t see the irony?
I’m a psych phd student at a university I won’t name, but I’m doing my dissertation on the gwop site. There are so many interesting psychological factors going on there. Obsession, group or “mob” mentality, anonymity leading to disinhibition, causing otherwise normal people to act in a manner that is incongruous with their belief system.
It’s really an amazing example of people behaving badly, and justifying that behavior. The reviews I’ve had so far have been overwhelmingly positive. In fact, I’m not the only person doing their dissertation on the gwop website. There are at least four other people that I know of that are studying this group (although one is a thesis, and not a dissertation).
I would like to think they are all on the ‘normal’ spectrum of psychology, but I would guess that there are at least one or two bi-polars or ocd’s leading the group over the cliff.
The day I saw a teacher of the kids posting confidential information (federal laws protect the children from the divulging of any education information), was the day it occurred to me that the obsession in that group could easily lead to a very violent end. These women trade addresses, they drive by the home, they show up at book signings, they stalk Mrs. Gosselin to the point where they research her nursing license information. They hate her. A woman they’ve only seen on TV. They even come to these sites, where people do not share their hatred (which is such a strong emotion) to try to stir things up, to attack anyone who doesn’t share their opinion. Since those that don’t share their opinion are not allowed to post on GWOP, they are forced to come to these other sites to “troll”, and they wear it like a badge of honor. It’s really quite odd.
Most people dislike others most fiercely when that person shows qualities that they dislike in themselves. Because there is so little self-awareness in any of us, they will never understand that.
Marie. This is IWHY. Anyone associated with this woman needs to be rewired.
I never saw the site before and I just briefly looked at. All I see is parody. To me, it seems rather like the SNL type of parody although I have not delved deeply into and I may have missed something. What’s the big deal? I have no idea how someone can like GWOP and think the person involved in IWHY needs to be rewired.
I didn’t see the hatred there that comes through posts at GWOP. It is the hate that is so disturbing there. People who can hate like so many of those women do are scary.
I can’t imagine Kate starring in a movie. I just assumed she meant a cameo or a some fun little appearance since she was also talking about being a cartoon voice. I hope that is what she meant.
I was disappointed in the SNL skit. I haven’t been watching since Tina Fey and Amy Poehler left. Kenan as Whoopie was the only part that made me smile. Kathy Griffin did a much better job spoofing Kate on her movie promo. Not that Taylor Swift should be as awesome as Kathy Griffin, but the skit was slow and not funny to me.
Hello Stefanie, I think you are new, so welcome to IW. I know a several of us here have found the Kate hate fascinating. It’s kept me interested for a long time. I can see why some would choose to study it in that way. Thanks for sharing that information. (btw, waving in case someone is studying us). I have been repeatedly shocked at some of the things they have done. Not so much with w/the corporations but their attacks on individuals associated with the Gosselins. The pastor they bombarded w/emails because Kate was speaking there is one I will always remember. His name is still mentioned at times and they want him to have learned his lesson. I believe it was because he had the audacity to answer back and, of course, Kate still spoke at the church.
As near as I can tell, being a Kate hater requires that you justify the most appalling behavior on Jon’s part in order to continue to make everything Kate’s fault, and when something (like this) is too egregious to justify, you just pretend it doesn’t exist. (Jennie)
It’s quite amazing that the attitude towards Jon is that he was so abused he is absolved of all personal responsibility. Blessings to to true victims of abuse but all adults have responsibilities. I don’t believe Jon was emotionally broken down by Kate, she might have been more vocal, but that was their marriage and how they were trying to make it work. He wasn’t in physical fear or experiencing “fight or flight”. How would you presume to know everything about a 10 year marriage from four years of an edited tv show (and two one hour specials). There are lot of ex spouses who acted just as Jon is doing now w/no abuse factor playing in. This attitude is solely to justify their hatred of Kate. Sadly, J&K’s divorce is typical, but public and w/more celebrities. How shameful that the haters take it to this level. They have built Kate up into such an icon of evil. Every word or moment shown is twisted into something sinister w/an underlying meaning to support their hate and a leap to their claim, sort of like Trixie’s example of how J&K’s first meeting was so “telling”.
Erin Kate, thanks for all the info. It’s appreciated! As Cella said, didn’t they learn anything from PM? They can whine and stomp their feet, but Jon’s actions brought this lawsuit on himself and he was intentional in his motives. I thought it might snap him back into a reality check. But, he still doesn’t seem to get it unless he’s stockpiling his money and planning to flee the country. Does he even have an attorney yet? Two huge legal proceedings going on and no attorney to represent him in either one?
Hi to everyone else! We’re doing a listing of favorite childhood toys and Jennie has a thread on favorite children books. I would love to hear some of your thoughts over there as well.
I wouldn’t rule out a movie role for Kate. Paris Hilton, Justin Guarini, Kelly Clarkson, Colleen Haskell (from the first season of Survivor), and Anna Nicole Smith, all appeared/starred in movies (and not just the homemade kind). I don’t think any of them spent much time at all working on their craft. If someone thinks the novelty factor is big enough, they’ll put her in a movie. Although, I can’t imagine her doing anything other than spoofing herself in a take-off of reality shows.
It’s been my experience that people change their opinion of J&K based on what the two of them do, not on what anyone else says about them on a blog. Some of the non-fans just sound crazy, and some, I can get where they’re coming from, but they’re not going to change my mind, and I’m not going to change theirs. Discussion is interesting, but trolls are boring. Alway the same old, same old. And, no matter which side you’re on, as long as you’re talking about J&K, you’re keeping things going.
My smarter self is saying don’t post because Lily’s last post summed it up so well. However, since I thought Ann’s post with family examples of finding the “right” partner when you’re involved with someone else made a good point, I wouldn’t mind if Trixie explained the irony she sees in it. BTW, Paige, I thought this waaay back when you posted it…your post #53 seemed to take my random thoughts I can’t begin to capture and write about and put them into coherent points.
And Kiki, when I started writing my last post, your post wasn’t there…that’s how long it takes me to write what I think. I agree with your thoughts on the movie role, just kinda hope that if she does spoof herself, it’s on something like SNL instead of a movie. The movie sounds like a career ender.
You don’t see the irony?
No. Why don’t you spell out what you think is ironic about my knowing others who ended one relationship to pursue another (successful) one that didn’t involve any persons involved being “conrolling.”
Mary, I see you already asked trixie to explain herself about the irony in my example. Thanks! I should have read the whole thread first.
Stefanie,
Your dissertation sounds interesting. Keep us updated, I’d love to read it after you are through!
Stefanie, I think that your research will be very interesting but I hope that there will be some research attention to the main Gosselin-related websites in your dissertation as opposed to focusing on gwop only.
My observation over the years of the show (and, honestly, going from an admirer to a non-admirer to a non-watcher) is that in the rush to virulently support either Kate or Jon some people forget that there are eight innocent souls involved here. Maybe it is due to various psychological disorders but if that is applicable at gwop then I think it is equally applicable throughout the Gosselin blogosphere. I don’t support either of them because I think that they ought to have realized at some point that not much good can come from having numerous moments of the childrens’ privacy and misbehaviour broadcast. I don’t think that either of them could have been very grounded psychologically to not have recognized that the whole thing was starting to spin out of control (e.g., Mady-abuse) and the need to step back. Although none of us have ever been in their shoes, that is what parents are supposed to do.
I am Canadian and there was a famous pivotal moment in one of our prime ministerial debates years ago when one candidate said to the incumbent “Sir, you had a choice!” about a key issue of the day. Boiled down to its essential elements, I think that encapsulates the Gosselin situation; Jon and Kate had the choice to continue or not continue and their repeated decision was to continue, consequences be damned. While it was their right, I think that the cost will be great to the children.
Stefanie, I think that you and your colleagues could have your hands full with Gosselin-related research.
what about the kids…I wouldn’t characterize the comments on this site as virulent, but you may have been excluding IW. About a month or so ago, I started looking for a site with a positive vibe, and that’s when I found this site. Literally, I entered “positive Gosselin news” and this site was in the list. I don’t believe the people who post here have forgotten the 8 kids. I also think that from 2006 (the beginning of it all in Gosselin t.v.) to now is a relatively short amount of time. I think Kate Gosselin is having to learn hard life lessons in front of us all. She will probably recognize places where she made bad or poorly informed decisions and try to rectify them and move forward. She is a fallible human being, as is Jon, and many of us just enjoy having a place to discuss what is going on and to express our hopes about what will happen for them and the kids in the future.
Perhaps “virulent” was the wrong word. It does seem as though opinions tend to run to the extreme. It would be fine for them both, as adults playing out their lives in the public realm, to be news if it were not for the children.
Whataboutthekids,
I agree. In your last comment, your opinion did seem extreme. I find most of the comments expressed in the threads here not to be extreme but to just have a different opinion than your own.
Mary, just wanted to say I really appreciate your last comment. That is really nice to hear.
I appreciate your balanced perspective and enjoy your posts.
I love it that the kids got to go trick or treating and that Kate pulled it off w/o anyone knowing. Bravo for her. Bravo also for Mady and Cara going w/friends. That is what 9 year olds should do for Halloween. Since my divorce at times I have spent a couple of Thanksgivings by myself or go to my sisters. I have always had my sons over the Friday after and they love it. They have a chance to recoup and chow down again and I also fix items that they didn’t get the day before like homemade noodles and Stove Top stuffing which my oldest son loves, I have made homemade stuffing but he doesn’t like it. Jon needs to grow up and get rid of his paparazzi friend. Jon you are not a celebrity, no one wants you to be a celebrity.
Mary, add my thanks to Anya’s.
Whataboutthekids, what is so extreme about thinking that the Gosselins made the wrong choice to continue with season 5, BUT respecting that it was their choice to make? What is extreme about thinking the choice was made with more information and love for their children than anyone in the audience can muster? What is extreme about thinking that, while it wouldn’t be the life I’d choose for my kids, it isn’t an abusive life or exploiting the children? I feel the same way about the Roloffs and the Duggars. They make good living chronicalling the life provided by the success of their shows. These shows have many, many benefits to the children involved. I can see that. I respect those who think it was a smart move, and those who think it was a mistake. I don’t respect hating Kate, calling her foul names, or inventing stories about her to jusify extreme and ugly feelings toward her.
I do find some opinions extreme. For example, Mady Gosselin isn’t abused. The characterization of her treatment on air as abuse is extreme. Insinuating that the Gosselins are abusive parents is extreme.
Barb, you brought up something I have wondered about Jon. You mentioned spending Thanksgiving with your sister. Why would Jon have to choose between going to the Glassman’s home and an empty apartment in NYC for Thanksgiving. Jon has a mom and brothers. I think they live within driving distance. Why wouldn’t he have the option to spend Thanksgiving with them? I think that Hailey was just forgetting about them when she mentioned that choice.
I did not mean to imply that Mady is abused by her parents and made no reference to her on air treatment. My use of “Mady abuse” refers to the criticism for her that I have seen on the web in various places in reaction to incidents filmed. She is just a child with little way to escape the possible pressures of filming. I meant to use that as an example of one impact that could or should have made both parents think twice even though I agree it was their choice to make.
I see your point, whataboutthekids, regarding the trashing of a number of the kids by folks on the Internet. However, while it bothers us, we do not know that it has any effect on the kids and I expect it doesn’t. You have to presume that the kids troll the Internet like Gosselin fans and detractors to conclude that the kids even know what is said about them. Mady might now but that again presumes that she is using her new laptop to google herself or her Mom and Dad. More likely she is using it to play games and Webkins and other things 9 years do on the “Net.
Anyway, none of us know what the kids know or don’t know about what is said regarding their family. Kate and Jon know. It appears Kate is teaching them how to handle classmates who bring up the show. In her recent interview, she told a story of telling Alexis to tell a classmate that she doesn’t want to talk about the show. Alexis did and that ended it.
whataboutthekids, i think mady’s personality plays a huge part in her behavior. i think she would have acted the same without the cameras around. her problem is sibling rivalry. she would have had it with the sextuplets camera or no. the only difference is that we see it since it was caught on film.
and sometimes that’s not a bad thing. i remember kate once saying that the camera was mady’s conscience. she saw herself being mean to collin and didn’t like what she saw. and for the most part, with a few exceptions (but then she is just a child herself), mady has not been violent with the kids.
also, i am not completely sure that filming has or is hurting the kids. i think the show has afforded the family many wonderful things, as well as financial security and the ability to pay for college educations for 8 kids. i honestly don’t think the show is scripted. i think they ask them to say things but mostly i think the show takes them places or films them at home and just films the reactions to what they’re filming. which to me isn’t a horrible, exploitive thing.
i’m not to the point where i wish the filming has ended. i still enjoy watching the show even with just kate. she’s interesting to me.
oh, i guess you were talking abotu mady being abused by people on the web. well i think it’s horrible that adult women will be mean to the kids at all. they have said some pretty awful things abotu the kids on gwop.
stephaine i agree with you. it is scary that the women at gwop have gone so far astray of the values they surely have. i see people on there talking about going to church and praying…and yet hating kate so much they say she deserves to rot in hell. they are very judgmental (a BIG no-no to a christian). i’ve seen a pastor on gwop who, while not being as mean a some of the women, surely says things that make me cringe.
and i agree with the *mob mentality* going on there as well. i think it’s no wonder kate needs a bodyguard.
I apologize, whataboutthekids! I did think you were saying Mady is abused…thanks for clearing that up. I stand corrected.
What people say on the Internet about the kids is one reason I wouldn’t have continued the show. That kooky inmate suing Kate for custody is another. Gwop is a third. I just couldn’t stand the level of negativity about my family that Kate has to endure. However, all three can be dealt with by ignoring them. kimmie, you brought up a good point about how much the kids know.
I think there are very valid concerns about whether the kids can get away from the pressures of filming or handle the negative things said or written about them. I don’t think we can know, and I have watched Kate enough to form my own opinion of whether she makes these decisions with the kids’ best interests in mind. I know we’ll never all agree about this, though.
whatabouthekids,
The primary focus of my paper is the gwop site, primarily because of the sheer number of visitors (it’s public information), as well as the virulence with which the posters comment. I am looking at both the anonymity leading to disinhibition, as well as the overwhelming desire to be a part of something, even if the something you are part of is destructive and against your moral character. This presumed anonymity causes the justification of stalking, the consistent derogatory remarks about the kids, the parents, anyone in the world that has a conflicting opinion, the shedding of the kindness that they might show others in their “real” life because they have somehow assumed that who they are as a person and who they are when they sit down at their computer can be two different things.
“Real” life is a misnomer. All of your life is real. If you are petty and malicious when you post comments about others online, that is who you are. You may not act that way all of the time, but it is within you to act in that manner. In real life.
I’m wondering off topic here. The point is that the gwop site offers insight that others do not. The pathology of disinhibition, the obsession to the point of action (low or no impulse control), the likelihood of violent behavior (one has to wonder if the posting of addresses in almost every post is an attempt by some to coerce action).
My dissertation is almost complete, I’ve been researching this for quite a while now. The break-up of the marriage (or any event in the lives of the Gosselins) is almost happenstance at this point.
I am curious, if the posters will modify their behavior once they are aware that so many people are observing them, and using them as examples of some pretty profoundly negative psychological, possibly pathological dysfunction. That may be my first post-phd paper.
the likelihood of violent behavior (one has to wonder if the posting of addresses in almost every post is an attempt by some to coerce action).
What??!? I don’t read Gwop anymore. Well, I do read via the Crown Princess boards but I find this hard to believe! I can’t remember seeing anything there except a picture of the house about a year ago and the P.O. Box number requesting cards and letters (not money) for Jodi and Kevin.
Stefanie, I’d also love to read your final writings on the GWOP site, as I see it pertains to the annomity (how do you spell that..haha) of the internet. Although the internet has many positive things, I have always felt that lack of accountability resembles a night of drinking where all inhibitions are stripped away… and the internet allows one to act in such a manner. I’ve tired to limit my kids to the internet chat features for that reason alone. I also try to teach the value of phone calls instead of texts, phone calls or face to face instead of email… etc. I try to post as I would speak and as in life, if I am angry I walk away (click away) before I type (speak) because even though no one really holds me accountable for what I type…. I hold myself accountable.
To comment on the Mady abuse…. that is the reason I stopped going to the GWOP site. I didn’t mind so much the Kate bashing but when it came to the children bashing I knew it wasn’t a place for me. I tried to post that on the site once and of course, went un-posted, it wasn’t a popular view.
I may post the final, but it’s more likely that I wouldn’t. I will consider it. It’s more technical that it sounds. But I also don’t want it to be used as a tool for people who want to tear down the women and men who post on the site. It’s simply an example of the manner in which our behavior can change, or our bad behavior can be amplified in the face of perceived anonymity. I will say it’s one of the best non-political examples, but it’s still just an example.
You’ll be able to google it at some point either way.
Stefani, I think your dissertation sounds fascinating. I’ve always thought there would be a great Women’s Studies paper in analyzing mommy wars that happen on the internet (and to a lesser degree in real life). I also think that there is a great sociology study in things like the Gosselin blogs.
In other news, I’m convinced that either the Gosselin Divorce blog is written by a non-attorney, or at the very most a very bad attorney. Her response to my attorney-client privilege comment is about the fifth amendment, which is not inconceivable I suppose, but not a blanket “get out of testifying free” card the way that she implies. And she has not admitted that he can be deposed as to the very public statements made, anything made in negotiation, etc. I’m going to stay away from that, because I have a habit of starting or seriously facilitating blog wars, and since I typically only post here I don’t want to subject you all to that.
Actually, ErinKate, her response to your attorney-client privelege comment was to remove your remarks from the thread. I interpret that to mean she doesn’t want anyone to read what a real attorney has to say on the topic. I’ll just be referring to her as Legal Pennmommy.
The last comment she removed simply said “I don’t think you are an attorney.” That pretty much sealed it for me.
ann – I think there are very valid concerns about whether the kids can get away from the pressures of filming or handle the negative things said or written about them. I don’t think we can know, and I have watched Kate enough to form my own opinion of whether she makes these decisions with the kids’ best interests in mind. I know we’ll never all agree about this, though.
i just want to say that i don’t necessarily think kate is selfless in her decision-making. i think she wants the lifestyle she leads now for herself. i think she wants it for her kids too but i imagine the thought of living the way they did before as opposed to now wouldn’t sit well with her.
i really believe she doesn’t think the show hurts the kids. hindsight may be 20/20 in this case and i know that kate is *famous* because of having the kids, and that the draw of the show was/is the kids, but i do think kate has had a lot to do with the success of her family and their future. i don’t see kate treating her kids like they are above others (entitled). i find her to treat them the way a lot of parents do. i think she wants them to be productive members of society.
and i do think kate is and actually has been trying ot market herself more and more. she must know that there will come a time when the kids will want to be off the show. and i think she is working towards that end herself. which speaks to the fact that she is not trying to *live off her kids* as i’ve heard many on the gwop site say.
I guess she couldn’t argue with that, ErinKate. You win.
Kimmie, did I leave the impression that my opinion is that Kate does not make the decisions with the kids’ best interests in mind? I hope not. I meant I’ve watched her enough to believe she has the kids’ interests first. I believe she loves them dearly.
With all those qualification listed on the side of her blog about her legal experience, you would think she would be capable of an internet discussion on the points Erin Kate brought up to her.
I’d hate to see her argue for her client in a courtroom. 
I like Ann’s name of Legal Pennmommy.
Kimmie, ITA with your post #111. I have no problem having substantive discussions about the pros and cons of the show and its impact on the Gosselin kids. But I find it pointless to debate about whether Kate loves her kids or not, because I think it’s ridiculous to think that she doesn’t. I have never seen any evidence that would make me doubt that Kate loves her kids very much, and that she’s doing what she thinks is best for them.
I agree with your post of #111, too Kimmie. I believe Kate has always had the best interest of her kids at heart. She thinks with the kids in mind, and as you said Jennie and Ann, there’s no denying that she loves her kids very much and she’s doing what she thinks is best for them. I think she works hard at making sure those kids are loved and protected and I think she does a fantastic job at it.
I haven’t read the exchange with Erin Kate and the so-called-attorney yet, but from reading the above posts, anyone who doesn’t allow opposite opinion, or removes someone’s comments because they can’t answer in a knowledgeable, mature, and respectful manner, tells me that person isn’t worth the effort because she has no credence. She’s just another hateful person spreading the hate.
Is People serious that all of America was holding their breath waiting to hear how this family spent Hallowe’en? It never crossed my mind. They seem to be out of the limelight thank GOD. Trick or treating with TLC in your face can’t be much fun OR with the P people. How in the world did they ever manage to be not filmed. I guess they are just not as popular as all that, any more, and a good thing for the kids.
I think maybe what Jon meant when we said he was tired of being Jon and Kate plus 8 and wanted to be just Jon might have been that he wanted to be Jon for the camera. That could explain all his ridiculous assertions about being the 2nd most popular person after Michael Jackson and trying to wriggle out of his contract? He may well not want the kids on camera, which is all to the good, but he does seem to want to have opprotunities for hmself to be famous, not “just Jon” but Jon Gosselin the tv personality. Although I never thught much of his personality he is a celeb.
Doesn’t seem they can eke much more footage out of the old shows. With the paparazzi not even bothering to show up for Halloween, maybe that is a good thing. Having to cram in as much filming as hey could before Jon pulled the plug was clearly stressing the kids out if the looks on their faces were anything to go by. I hope they have a wonderful, warm, family Thanksgiving and Kate manages to keep the focus off why Daddy isn’t there for the first time.
When I was a kid and my parents were divorced and we spent Christmas with my mom knowing my dad was alone was one of the saddest times in my life. I hope she can put aside the need to be right and the better parent in her own mind and try to find a way to have the family be together for that day, or a part of it, as the absence of Jon will hurt her kids more than it will bug her to have him there. Hailey’s not Christian so should not be a problem of not spending it with her.
Whosminding, I agree completely that they’ll miss their dad on Christmas (and Thanksgiving.) Your remark about your childhood is so poignant. I have always had joyfull, blessed, carefree holidays. My parents worked hard to do that for us. I have acquaintainces who knew deprivation and heartache growing up, and they still get whistful and a little blue thinking about the chidlren who still live through the holidays with fearand lonliness.
I think I remember Jon saying that he will be with the kids for a few hours on Christmas. Also, Hailey will be getting her first stocking. Maybe that changed though.
ann no, when i read your post i just thought maybe it sounded like i thought kate was miss perfect. i don’t. i know i am not. but i think i am a real good mom…and i think kate is. i think she has done her best (and a real good job) in a lot of situations that a less strong person might not have been so successful at.
i really hoped that at least for the kids jon and kate could have christmas together at the house. how hard would it be to make things nice for the kids…to have jon stay over the garage…to have him in the house when the kids get up to open their gifts…to have kate’s sticky buns and a big dinner.? all those things can be done without anger and all. but then maybe the kids would think they were getting back together and be more hurt…i don’t know. the kids have ben through so much and i would have a hard time knowing what to do in that case. ehat do you all think?
Kimmie, it is nice to think about them being able to have Christmas together, but in my view exes spending Christmas together would be tricky. It would probably be easier before either of them had someone else in their life. It would be interesting to hear from people here who’ve managed that for the sake of the kids. You’ve made me wonder whether my husband, who has 2 daughters from a previous marriage, did celebrate with his ex-wife and daughters during the years after the divorce but before me. I’ve never asked. I do know that once I was in the picture, they had established the plan to spend half of Christmas with their Mom and half with us. The Gosselins are definitely unique, though, since they share the house, and the kids are always there.
mary i was actually just kind of thinking for this first christmas. i know it could be a horrible time for all of them but i really do think kate tries to be civil with jon when they are all together. which truly has to be hard for her after all jon has done the last few months.
but i think for the first holiday it would be awesome if they could pull it off for sure. it would mean they would be able to do it again in different situations.
Well, they managed to get through the twins’ birthday without the police being called. I think they could pull off Thanksgiving/Christmas, depending on what happens in the meantime. Surely by next year, anyway.
OMG, I am so glad I found this site. I am intrigued by the Gosselins saga, adore those darling kiddies and loved the show. When I went looking for more Gosselins news I found the GWOP site and was sickened by the vitriol. There was a review of last weeks show where the writer referrred to Kates “canckles”. That is so totally junior high school. People’s physical configuration is NOT a character defect and a mature, thoughtful, caring woman would never use a persons physical characteristics as an acusation of bad character. I am amazed, as so many of you seem to be, that this kind of hate consumes these peoples minds. Whatever do they do for fun, torture small animals. I actually wrote an email to one of the site leaders and got back an answer that justifies what they are doing as “expressing their concern about the welfare of the children”. It doesn’t take a degree in psychology to know that when you pour hate on a parent, you poison the air the children breathe.
I seem to agree with the majority of you. Kate has shown some remarkable smarts, and is handling most of Jon’s idiotic behavior with more grace and poise than I would show under the same circumstances. His behavior is outrageous, and I’m not talking about the girls and the partying and the obvious blackmail of TLC. I am appalled that he has: a) barred Kates access to the property and the kids and called the police to have her removed, when she wanted to meet the “baby sitter” Jon had at the house during his time, b) taken a huge amount of money out of the family’s operating account and c) brought his girl friends into his childrens lives, while he is still legally married to their mother. And the girls are getting younge and younger. Does he think that just because he acts like a spoiled child he’s not verging on pedophilia?
Anyway, I’m so glad to have found your site and plan to visit it often. Thank you for reaffirming that there are other grown up women out there.
Welcome Caren! I think you’ll find the sanity here refreshing
I already have. I do want to clarify part of my comments. I have only visited the GWOP site twice and have vowed to myself to never visit it again. Call me silly, but I do believe that reading filth is tatamount to approving it, and my soul can’t take any more hits than I manage to give it with my own imperfections.
Also, although at the moment my sympathies are with Kate I do know she’s not perfect. I wish she had been a little less explosive with Jon, but I got the distinct impression from last nights show that she wishes the same thing. And I’d like to think I know truth from lies when I see it. I believed her last night, I believed her last week and I will continue to believe her until I see evidence that she’s a liar. She loves her kids and made the best decisions she could, given what was going on at the moment that she made them. Did she make mistakes? You bet. So have I and so has every one I know. And some of mine are way worse than Kates, I say with all honesty. I go back to what Jesus said when they were going to stone the woman taken in adultery; “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Wish GWOP knew the bible.
Thanks for the welcome, Samantha. I hope we get to talk many more times.
Oops, Kimmie, that seems so obvious now that you point out you were talking about this year only for spending Christmas together. It would be great! I wish I thought it could happen, but I agree with you…based on what’s been happening (at least the part we get to see), it would be Kate who would have to shoulder most of the responsibility for keeping it civil. I imagine the TLC lawsuit is going to be making Jon more and more tense, and it probably won’t be resolved by Christmas. The laid-back Jon of old may be gone for a long time, at least when he’s dealing with Kate.
Hello, Caren, this is indeed a great site!
Did they spend Fourth of July together?
It would be nice if they could get to (or back to) a place where they could share a holiday with the kids, especially while they are young.
Welcome, Caren! Thanks for joining the discussion. Feel free to jump in the other non-Gosselin-related discussions on other threads.
Jon says they will both spend time with the kids on the holidays-
.popeater.com/2009/11/10/jon-gosselin-holidays
It’s nice that he started the children’s foundation to honor his father, but why didn’t he name it after him? (And, why did he have to tell everyone about his dad’s alcohol problem?)
Oh, well, let’s hope the kids have a good holiday season.
hi caren! this is a wonderful site! enjoy!
ann they did spend july 4th together and the pix i saw both the adults had some smiles and looked to be ok with being together for the kids. but so much more has happened since then. oh my!
#74 I followed that link to the GWOP site…. shutter the thought. I was a bit confused. Did I see a little Jon bashing going on? Truly, I haven’t gone there in probably a year or so but the few things I read were not about Kate or the kids but about Jon…. actually poking fun at his yoga picture and his recent behavior. I didn’t read any comments that followed, so I was really kind of lost….. or didn’t dig deep enough to follow.
I did look at the opening picture a bit…… had seen it before, but in my tired, not nearly enough sleep the last few nights state I just sort of stared at it. Did anyone notice it’s a goose biting a goose in the back? Is that a hidden meaning?
Welcome, Caren!
Kat, that link was to GWoP Without Pity, which makes fun of GWoP. So, the picture of the geese is a send-up of the GWoP pic of the goose family.
ahhhh, okay thanks Kiki…. I was so confused.
Welcome Caren! You’re really going to enjoy this site and not just the Gosselin threads. The whole site has some wonderful articles and posts.
Kat and Kiki, I started going thru the Gwop-wop site and find it hilarious! It’s good to see someone put gwoppers in their place. It’s also kind of validating to see some of those threads and how their posters are thinking like we do (they see the bigger picture like we do), although, they do not do it with the grace we have here.
I must reallllyyyyy be tired. Even after I posted that I understood what Kiki had posted….. hahah, I still didn’t understand. I went and googled the GWoP site and when I saw the top it was like a duh moment. Now I really think the geese back biting is hilarious. I really need some sleep! I peaked at the front page, again, not reading the comments….. really truly a group of hateful posters.
I have just spent the better part of an hour reading this thread and I can’t tell you what a breath of fresh air it is.
I have been to the sites that have been discussed here and have just been sick over all the hateful comments.
I left a comment at the so called legal site and it wasn’t very well received. When I started looking at the links it dawned on me just what kind of site it was.
I am a child of divorced parents and actually I think spending the holidays together is not a good idea. The children may not be aware of everything that is going on but they will be able to feel the tension in the air. That’s the way it was for my parents you could tell they were forcing themselves to be nice to each other. This is just my opion from my own personal experience. I was glad when they started having seperate holidays.
I also would love to read Stef’s paper on the GWOP site. It amazes me how every little thing Kate has ever done is dissected and twisted. It worries me that someone over there could be capable of causing physical harm to Kate. I now understand why she has a body guard and frankly she should probably get a couple more.
I wonder if they know they are not as annonymous as they would like to believe. Just recently someone sued a blog site over the hateful comments someone was making about them and they were forced to reveal her identity and I think that she was sued over it.
I am so glad I found this site.
That popeater link from Kiki could give a person hope.
Welcome Julie Ann. You have a beautiful name, if I may say so…
Thanks for the link Kiki. Wow, Jon sounded lucid in that one, much different than the rambling ParentDish interview where he said he was doing Thanksgiving w/Hailey and only seeing his children a couple of hours on Christmas. btw, I do think Jon should have clarified his remarks on his father’s alcoholism. For all we know, he was sober and recovering before Jon was born or he could have been going to work drunk. Jon left it wide open for speculation.
Welcome to the new people. So happy your found your way to IW.
Theresa, what a nice compliment.
Welcome Caren and Julie Ann! It’s nice to see some new faces.
I am happy Jon plans to spend part of the Thanksgiving holiday with the kids (per the Popeater article). Jon is so inarticulate and changes his story every 20 minutes, it’s hard to know what to believe. I hope for the best, however.
I see Jon was back on the “The Insider” tonight. If they devoted the whole half-hour to him (0r at least 23 minutes) he would probably reveal every last personal piece of private information about Kate and the kids. Since the majority of the show is “teases” and commercials, he only had a few minutes, but managed to call Kate “Cruella de Vil” (so clever) and reveal too much information about how the kids are handling the split – so disappointing (once again)……
Welcome Julie Ann!
UGh, would the Insider please stop paying him to be on the show to dish details about their life? Just quietly go away Jon. You owe that to your family.
I hope he gets a muzzle for Christmas!
Theresa, I feel the same way. A muzzle would be perfect. I am up and trying to get caught up on family and friends emails. I’m getting so excited for the holidays and my mom’s dressing (stuffing). Anyway, I watched the Insider. The best thing I can say is that Jon appeared calmer and spoke coherently this time. That was a mean remark about Kate doing Cruella Deville as a cartoon voice. Jon says his biggest regret is going public w/Hailey so soon, then he gets a dig in.
Jon is accusing Kate of throwing his things out the door when she returned home and he was asleep in Alexis’s bed. He also said he didn’t do things to Kate like that and he paid the mortgage too. I guess the night he wouldn’t let her in doesn’t count. These public accusations are unfair but I hope Kate doesn’t return the spar. He tries to make her angry on purpose and be the drama king (per the twins bd), I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s trying to upset her in personal ways we would never know. He said television is his career and there were many opportunities. He’s not likable, I think he needs to look elsewhere.
Hi Caren, I enjoyed your posts. Re: Jon calling the police, Kate was the one who called them the night of the babysitter incident. It was on The View, she said she called them as a precaution, just to be there (para). Welcome to IW.
Wow, the hope brought alive by the popeater link snuffed out by the appearance on The Insider. Lily, I agree about hoping Kate doesn’t return the spar. She has succeeded in mostly staying above the fray so far, in my opinion. Crossing my fingers.
At this point, it seems that Jon must be going for the “bad” character that is always present in reality shows. He used to be likable, based on what we saw on J & K plus 8 and it’s hard to imagine he’s had a complete personality change. In my rose-colored glasses world, I’m going to think that maybe Jon has consulted with Kate about how he can make the most money now (by being the “bad” guy on entertainment news shows) in order to keep providing for the kids. Okay, that’s crazy…too much bad stuff on film for the kids to see in the future…Kate wouldn’t agree to that.
Jon has been a busy boy lately. Here is a link to his latest project.
funnyordie.com/videos/82ee1f0bd5/jon-gosselin-goes-back-in-time
Thank you for the warm welcome.
I look forward to being able to have a healthy debate without all the hate.
lordamercy! can the guy stick to anything he says!!!! he says he’s sorry especially to kate and then he says things like on the insider. things like this make me think kate had a real positive influence on him when they were together.
i think she was horrible at times but maybe the frustration of being the responsible one (for 10 people) made her blow up. must have been like raising a teen and the eight kids. except the teen didn’t really have to do the right thing. she kept him in line longer than i would have thought possible after seeing his behavior the last several months.
Thanks Julie Ann,
I just posted that up on top. I actually thought it was pretty funny!
Ann thanks for your comment re Holidays without Dad. I’m thrilled to see that Jon will be with the family for at least a part of Christmas. It CAN be difficult to manage blended families at the holidays especially when in the midst of an ugly divorce, my own parents did not manage that quite so soon as both of them remarried (shocking soon in my 8 year old child’s opinion) and it took them a few years to be able to manage such a feat. However I am happy to report that 40 years later, they have spent (both are now POST divorce of the 2nd marriage btw!) nearly every Christmas together for the past 30 years, with us and their mutual 9 grandchildren. The secret to doing that well and I would imagine it goes for this family as well, is to be CIVIL to one another, and focus on the children. With 8 under age 9 that should not be difficult. The kids will be delirious with joy at the holiday, not inclined to ask a lot of weird questions until they are all around the table, and will be happy and relieved at having mom and dad together. Telling them that this does not mean mommy and daddy will be staying married is a simple concept and one I hope that they broach prior to the holiday. There may be tears and questions on the day, however, those can be handled if both parents are on the same page and should be from day one as they were with the announcement in the first place, telling the kids together and trying to make it not so bad for their sakes yet not sugar coating it or misleading them or god forbid coming up with some TLC inspired “maybe we’ll get back together” episode concept. “We’re celebrating the holiday together because we are your mom and dad and we always will be, we are not ever going to live together again, but we both still love you all and have your well being in mind, so let’s make Christmas a happy time for everybody.” Then, focus on gifts, singing hymns or caroles, eating, playing with the new toys, buidling a snow man, and doing things that make this a happy time for the CHILDREN for whom they both have told us repeatedly – they do everything.
SO happy to see that this may be a time when they put their money where their mouths are, and actually be there for the kids with no cameras and no one paying them to do so (and shut up about how it went, afterwards,to the tabloids and media!) It woudn’t kill them to buy each other a gift either, as nothing gets past a child’s radar, a pair of gloves, or whatever just so that the inevitable question does not arise as to why there is nothing under our tree for daddy or mommy.
It’s not that hard to do if you make the day about the kids. My parents having had decades of water under the bridge, actually hang out together and reminisc and watch the football games, they both have a lot of shared memories and numerous kids and grandkids. Jon and Kate have a tougher time but it should be doable and they have my best wishes on that since they have 8 HS graduations, 8 weddings, a bunch of mutual grandkids being born, and many many holidays to get through together as divorced or blended families before they can really be shut of each other. This is the time to start trying to set precedents, and those should not all include Jon being “invited” to spend a few hours in his children’s house that he shares joint custody of, but of both of them bending a little and acting like co hosts or co guests in a home where the kids are the main focus.
I hope they read your comment sadstateofaffairs, or get the advice somewhere else. I am sure it wasn’t easy for your parents at first, but it certainly seems like it was worth it.
Sorry to get back so late……
I wouldn’t mind if Trixie explained the irony she sees in it.
????? Ok, I will spell it out. He left one girl for her and now he immediately moves on to another girl post her. She controlled the situation at the beginning and he used that same excuse of control to humiliate her and set a very bad example. How ironic, the attraction becomes the repellent.
You know how I met my husband? I literally slipped on the floor and slid right past him. He was laughing so hard he had a hard time helping me up. Fast foward 20 years, and 20 years of my clutziness, and this past Halloween I was driving home and a bat got caught up in my windshield wipers. I drove home screaming and he met me in the drive laughing his butt off. The bat made it out alive, by the way.
As my mom always said, “How you find him is how you will have him”. So true! People don’t change, it’s up to the partner to either accept it or move on.
Actually, trixie, your “irony” comment was an insult directed toward me and my family. Since I described happy marriages, your #148 explanation makes no sense. Maybe this is a case of your not knowing what irony means.
He left one girl for her and now he immediately moves on to another girl post her.
Immediately? After 9 years?
Ann where did I say anything about you or your family? Please cut and paste for me. The irony is that the very take control that was the attraction is the repellent. The fact is that when she met him he immediately left another girl for her so when they split he immediately found another girl. Did they split 9 years ago? I hadn’t heard.
Maybe your story is your issue. It certainly isn’t mine. I am very careful not to remark on any personal issues by anyone on this board. I would hope the same non=attack mode would also be directed towards me.
Please cut and paste for me.
Re-read #81, trixie.
You cut and pasted my remarks about my family and asked if I saw the irony.
Maybe your story is your issue.
What are you talking about when you say to me “your issue.” What issue? I’m having trouble reconciling that phrase with your claim that you use a “non-attack mode.”
Just read #81 and did not mean to cut and paste the whole paragraph.
trixie, I don’t agree with your interpretation of that romance as Kate wanting to be in control. It seems to me they were recalling how “sparks flew” between them, as they sometimes do.
Is what I meant to leave in, sorry.
I think I am always amazed when anyone compares their normal situation with a reality personality. I am sorry it did not occur to me that you would connect situations that have no comaprison to fame seekers. I meant no harm.
To me reality people are pretty low on the media/entertainment rung. No talent and nothing to gain by putting their lives out there than money. I certainly wouldn’t do it for millions of dollars to put my family under a microscope.
Maybe I should have been more broad in my comment. She told us she took control when they met and made sure she was with him the next day, she told us she convinced him to have more kids and she told us she peddled the show. Ironically, he had enough and split. Not saying I agree with him, I don’t. I think both of them need to grow up and find a way to raise their family without the kids having to work. I do it, you do it, we all do it.
I think I am always amazed when anyone compares their normal situation with a reality personality.
i think reality personalities are just normal people. i think a lot of women are just like kate…and a lot of men are just like jon. the only differences i see are:
j & k are on tv
and
editing leaves us without a clear picture.
have you ever thought that in our friends’ lives we see edited versions? we may see a couple fight but not know that behind closed doors it’s even worse. ya know? and then we’re completed shocked when they get a divorce.
I think both of them need to grow up and find a way to raise their family without the kids having to work. I do it, you do it, we all do it.
i don’t see the kids as working…i guess that’s why i don’t feel they are being exploited. just because j & k chose to work on tv doesn’t mean they are/were irresponsible or not grown-up. if i knew kate had spent the money and had none left to support her family then maybe i would agree.
but i think kate has made sure of the kids’ educations and has put money away for a rainy day.