By Anya
Despite the similiarity to last week’s Gosselin Chatter title, this is, in fact, a new post.
Another week and Kate has kept a low profile except for being spotted dropping the kiddos off at the bus stop in the early morning at dark o’clock (the little girls pants are adorable). The afternoon brought a return to the bus stop. I expect another week of negative discussion on certain blogs about pony tails, shoes and foot stools.
Jon returned to his second home – Utah. New York being the first. Or maybe the order is reversed now that he has a new girlfriend.
Eonline.com has a new entry about Jon’s scene making antics at the Sundance Film Festival. While the writer is a bit too nasty for my taste, Jon’s behavior isn’t likely to win him new fans. Jon and new girlfriend, Morgan Christie, apparently took great pains to make sure they went noticed on Main Street, the hub of Sundance activity:
“They just kept walking up and down Main Street,” a poor onlooker describes. “They were holding hands, and it was pretty obvious they wanted everyone to see them. They kept walking up and down the same street over and over.”
Radaronline.com reports that Jon drew further attention to himself at some of the festival parties going on Friday night.
“Isn’t this bulls***?,” he said, handing his Blackberry to Morgan so she could also read the message. He then cursed TLC by name and muttered that the network was “(bleeping) him.”
Ever the supportive girlfriend-of-the-moment Morgan reassured him, “”You helped make them and now they’re trying to screw you legally.”
I don’t even know where to begin. I have been rooting for Jon to pull it together for a while now. Jon may be imperfect, but there is a decent guy in there somewhere. As long as he has people like Morgan Christie telling him what he wants to hear instead of the truth (love that word!), I don’t see a turn-a-round coming any time soon.
What do you think?
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51 Responses to JON DOES SUNDANCE, KATE PICKS THE KIDS UP FROM SCHOOL
Oh boy, new Gosselin post on a Saturday…and I thought all I’d be doing tonight is watching Lawrence Welk on PBS with my parents. Thanks Anya…the following from your article says exactly how I feel.
I don’t even know where to begin. I have been rooting for Jon to pull it together for a while now. Jon may be imperfect, but there is a decent guy in there somewhere. As long as he has people like Morgan Christie telling him what he wants to hear instead of the truth (love that word!), I don’t see a turn-a-round coming any time soon.
Regarding the pants on those little girls: Too cute!
Regarding “dark o’clock”: Great description of that cold, dark hour when the commute begins. I am really looking forward to “spring ahead.” I don’t like heading off to work at dark o’clock.
Regarding Jon & Soulmate – 8 at Sundance: At least the exercise may do him some good, right?
I also think there’s a decent guy in there somewhere, but as time goes on, I wonder if he will ever escape. I think Jon’s going to have to really hit rock bottom before he wises up, because it looks like he’s going to continue on his current path (with the media attention and rich girlfriends) until it just disappears. I’ll bet he hasn’t got any concrete plans beyond where he’s gonna stay next week.
Ah Kate, at least you weren’t wearing the hooker shoes and red leather jacket (the yellow one is so last spring, I guess), but you got on the bus again. Bad mommy! (She should get some polka dot pants to match the girls, that would really set people off.)
Kiki, I’m afraid I agree with you – I think Jon is going to need something to bring about an epiphany about his behavior. He really doesn’t appear to get what he’s done to bring about his current troubles.
I can’t help but wonder what the reaction would be if circumstances were reversed – Kate was half-way across the country with her love interest du jour and Jon were home dropping off and picking up his kids from school. I wonder if all the talk would be about his footwear and endless analyses of still photographs “proving” abuse.
I still believe in Jon!! I think he is a good person, but with these want to be stars or different women chasing after him, no doubt they makes him feel important. I wonder what it is with these women? Wonder what their agenda is? I believe LTC has wronged Jon and with Jon help!! made himself look like a idiot. I see this as Jon way of fighting back, and being stubborn. Without realizing he is making himself look bad.
Kate has spent the past two years traveling around the country with a new love. ( herself) and leaving Jon home tending to the Children’s needs. Everyone seems to forget that!!
I see Kate went out with her hair dresser?? Or is that something innocent?
When he and Hailey ended I was hoping he might be solo for awhile and pull it together. During my phone interview with Jon a lot of what he said was ridiculous, and a lot of it sounded like “old” Jon. Its amazing how they seem like two completely different people. I think Jon is going to have to hit ROCK bottom before he comes back to any semblance of the father we first met. While some would think he’s already as low as he can get, he keeps surprising us. I’m thinking this will continue for a while- maybe escalate into something even worse then we’ve seen so far. Then he’ll have some type of revelation and end up on another reality show where he tries to get back to basics, who he used to be- or at least a better version of who he is now. Like Celebrity Rehab for those obsessed with and changed for the worst by fame.
Kate has spent the past two years traveling around the country with a new love. ( herself) and leaving Jon home tending to the Children’s needs. Everyone seems to forget that!!
That is such an exageration. Kate was gone on the book tour for all of April and May of 2008. She was also gone for about 6 or 7 Women’s shows in 2008. She did very little traveling in 2009 – few women’s Shows. That gone for two years is another of the myths that rose around this whole situation. Also, whether anyone agrees with her doing it or not, Kate was working – a book tour is part of the requirements of being an author and getting books sold is what brings in the income. She was not hopping around to go yachting in the South of France, skiing in Utah, partying in New York, attending celebrity events like Sundance.
I think he is a good person, but with these want to be stars or different women chasing after him, no doubt they makes him feel important.
Grown people own their actions. Jon’s choice’s in the past year can not be blamed on other people (the girls he dates or TLC). He is a man. I would like to think Jon is a good person but it is getting harder and harder. I’ve examined what I think it means to be a good man under his circumstances (recently divorced father in his 30′s). In those circumstances, I see a good person as one who works hard to help support his family, lives close enough to his children to go to their sports games and attend school plays, etc., doesn’t regularly go bar hopping, is circumspect in his dating life so that his kids aren’t confronted with knowledge of a series of girlfriends, and treats the women he dates with respect. If that is what I think of as “good” in divorced men in general, I see no reason to hold a different standard for Jon.
I am hoping he settles in PA near the kids and is a constant and regular presence in their life. I am hoping he gets a job and stops loafing around the country. I am hoping he curbs his “wild life” ways (the drinking and the series of women). I am hoping all that for the kids sake.
I see Kate went out with her hair dresser?? Or is that something innocent?
I would think it was on the innocent side because there have been no additional pictures of them together. He showed her how to curl the extensions so she was more comfortable with them and they had lunch together. If they are photographed together again, I might think there is more to it. Obviously the paparazzi are following her again with all the bus pictures so we will know if she is dating.
Paige:
As we all know!! Men think differently than most of us women. I totally do not agree with you saying Jon is a grown man, and should be responsible for the choices he has made. Good or bad. Sorry to say this!! But!!! men think with their penis!! Some sweet looking, talking woman comes up to him, and whispers sweet nothing in his ears, he is going to leap, and say how high. These women are making him feel needed and loved.
I would not want to live close to Kate either. Jon probably wants as far away from her, as he can get. That doesn’t mean he loves his Children less. Maybe the time he spends alone with his Children now is quality time? We don’t know what their time together is like.
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I heard Kate say she was home very little the last two years. Yes she would come home to repack and leave again. Jon hated that!! Instead of expressing his feeling to Kate. He kept his mouth shut!! He became more, and more resentful.
I believe Jon will get a job, and we don’t know if he is loafing or not. With Kate and him splitting the custody makes it a little hard to have a full time job.
It may appear that I alway side with Jon? Really I don’t!! I have not agreed with all his actions. I think I understand why he reacts the way that he does at times.
I disagree with you Paige respectfully!! I love a good debate!!
Kate has spent the past two years traveling around the country with a new love. ( herself) and leaving Jon home tending to the Children’s needs. Everyone seems to forget that!!
This is SO untrue. First of all, Jon CHOSE to stay home, because he said he did not enjoy making speeches and Kate was NOT gone for two whole years. She was traveling on business, not on pleasure. I am really tired of hearing the Martyr Jon story. It was while he was supposedly staying home and taking care of his children that he was spotted hanging out at bars with other women.
Also, it drives me nuts that Jon gets so much credit for taking care of his children for a few weeks, when Kate was home with them 24/7 for the first four years of their lives. That is what everyone tends to forget, Mary!
Judy maybe what you seem to forget, was that Jon had a full time job, and then came home after a full day of work, to help Kate with the Children. John served their dinners, and gave them their baths. Then spent the whole weekends doing what Kate wanted to do. If I remember correctly Kate loved Jon being home on the weekends, because she wanted Saturdays some what free for herself. Wasn’t Jon entitled to some freedom?
At first when he switched jobs, he was able to choose his own hours, to help Kate!! Then all of a sudden Kate was not around and Jon was there 24/7.
No wonder Jon went off the deep end!!
Kate did not need to be out on the road all the time. She was not making the money. They all were!! Just because Kate wrote a book doesn’t mean by any means she is the better person, and the bread winner. Without Jon help she would not have been able to travel.
I believe Jon when he said him and Kate had not been a couple for the last couple of years. I believe that is why he was out in the bars!! If Kate loved and wanted Jon then she should have been a bit more loving and supportive of him. If not for Jon then at least for the sake of the Children!!! It was Kate’s job to take care of her man!! Jon should have been first. I believe Jon put Kate needs first for a long time. JMO
I still feel that Jon has made mistakes!! But so has Kate!! Who suffers? The Children!!
I am sorry but I can not stand the argument that men think with their penis, I have seen women do the same with their own bodies, doesn’t make them wrong or right it just how some people choose to live with life. The truth will never really be known what was the breaking point in their marriage, I am sure both contibuted to it falling apart.
What I do agree with is that Jon seems incapable of being alone by himself to really reflect what is going on with himself. That is the part I respect about Kate she is not out there dating and is trying to keep life at home as stable as possible. I find her lifestyle at this time to be reflective of being a parent and being responsible for what will affect her children, she admits she is lonely….. who wouldn’t be after a divorce. I also think Kate has done alot of inner searching at this time, I just can tell by her actions of getting a new hairdo etc that she is trying to make herself feel good inside normal stuff for any woman going thru a divorce or break up of a relationship.
Most divorced dads (and moms) work full time because they have to. Even when sharing custody. Of course, that is more easily accomplished by living in the same general vicinity as your kids. So what if he doesn’t want to live near Kate? I doubt she wants to see much of him either.
Right on Paige, post #7, Judy post #9. Well said…both posts.
And #11 Diane..totally agree with all you said!
As we all know!! Men think differently than most of us women. I totally do not agree with you saying Jon is a grown man, and should be responsible for the choices he has made. Good or bad. Sorry to say this!! But!!! men think with their penis!! Some sweet looking, talking woman comes up to him, and whispers sweet nothing in his ears, he is going to leap, and say how high. These women are making him feel needed and loved.
I am sorry if that is only kind of men you know. I have been lucky enough to have men in my life that are nothing like you describe. My mother was in and out of the hospital quite a bit when my parents where in their 30′s and 40′s. I know my Dad had opportunities to stray and he never did. I am friends with two divorced fathers who have acted nothing like Jon – they have done everything to support and be with their children as much as possible dispite the women who have shown interest in them.
I have a much different view of men than you do. Yes there are men like you describe but they aren’t the good ones. Luckily, there ARE good men out there.
I would not want to live close to Kate either. Jon probably wants as far away from her, as he can get. That doesn’t mean he loves his Children less. Maybe the time he spends alone with his Children now is quality time? We don’t know what their time together is like. there.
I never said Jon didn’t love his children. I do think he is being a totally irresponsible parent at the moment. Sorry but I don’t buy that excuse of wanting not to live near Kate. His wanting to be a regular and consistent presence in his children’s lives should outweigh his not wanting to live near Kate. Quality time does not make up for not being around on a regular basis – my son sees his Dad about 3 times a year (his Dad’s choice). They have a great time when they get together – clearlyly high quality time. But even my son acknowledges that this doesn’t make up for all the times is Dad choices not to be around. My son’s Dad is like an uncle to him at this point – someone who is fun when he pops in but who doesn’t want the responsbility of making sure the meals get cooked, the clothes get washed, and the homework gets done.
I believe Jon will get a job, and we don’t know if he is loafing or not. With Kate and him splitting the custody makes it a little hard to have a full time job.
Well I expect at some point, Jon will get job because people will get tired of supporting him. What we do know is that since the marriage fell apart around this time last year, he spent considerable time loafing – living with Hailey’s parents and now he is living with the new girlfriends parents. He is spending his days being seen wondering the streets of Park City Utah and Washington DC with the new girlfriend.
And yes he can have a full time job – well if he lived near the kids he could. They are in school all day and there are nannies or babysitters for afternoon care. Most people who have split custody find a way to work full time as well.
oh mary! would you really want your husband or your son to be behaving the way jon is? would you excuse your husband of that? your son?
i take offense to the post that all men think with their penises. my husband does not…and i sincerely feel very sorry for you if your husband does. i don’t know if your husband *thinks with his penis* but if he does maybe that is why you feel the need to defend jon gosselin’s actions of the last year.
E.V.E.R.Y. adult should be repsonsible for their actions. and there are and will be consequences. here’s what i think…i think jon has an inflated sense of self and thinks he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread…and that simply is NOT true…because MY SON IS! and while i am serious in that is how i think of my son…i still would never excuse that kind of behavior in him.
i don’t know where to post this but have you seen this?
http://preesi.lefora.com/2010/01/22/jon-gosselin-believe-it-or-not-a-message-to-the-sh/
someone actually took the time and made an effort to make a pic/video of jon from publicity/tlc shows pix and calls it believe it or not…a message to the sheeple…oh my!
kimmie, I saw that video just tonight and…I have no words. I wondered if whoever put it together was some sort of troll trying to make the Kate-haters look bad. I mean, the showers of animated roses or whatever they were? The quotation marks around random words? That ridiculous song? (It always makes me think of Seinfeld, and George’s answering machine message: “Believe it or not, George isn’t at home…”) I’ve seen some crazy stuff from the Kate-haters, but man. It’s getting harder and harder to tell the fanatics from the pulling-our-leg trolls. I think the lack of real Gosselin news and happenings is making some of them a bit stir-crazy.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that Jon doesn’t love his kids, or that they don’t love him. Contrast this to the daily claims that Kate doesn’t love her kids and that they hate their mom. I think the most reasonable people would say is that Jon’s poor judgment has had and continues to have a negative effect on the kids. If he really is moving to Utah, how much will he be seeing his children? I will say that based on what I’ve seen, Jon is much less able to put his own ego, wants and needs aside and focus on his children than Kate is (and I do think Kate can be guilty in this regard as well, for instance when she snipes at Jon publicly – but I think it’s much less frequent and with more provocation on her part). I also think he tends to be less patient when dealing with the kids. But I don’t doubt for a moment that he loves them and that they love him.
I’m not even sure how to respond to the notion that men just can’t control themselves sexually – it’s such an antiquated and ultimately harmful idea (it can be and has been used to justify rape, for one thing). It’s unfair to men and women. As others have said, we are each of us responsible for our own behavior.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying Jon was not responsible for his actions. I just feel Kate beat Jon down so much, that when other women approached him, making him feel important he has not always made the right choices.
No I would not want my Son in the position to act like Jon. My Son’s wife treats him with respect. My son is going bald like Jon!! My daughter-in-law would never degrade him on national TV .
http://preesi.lefora.com/2010/01/22/jon-gosselin-believe-it-or-not-a-message-to-the-sh/ Wow!!!
I saw that video in question. It was made by Jibber Jabbers – a very strong Jon lover; Kate hater. She has made other anti-Kate videos … I think they can be found on Youtube.
That video is just plain nuts even if you accept the premise of it. She is trying to make the point that Jon loves the kids and te kids love Jon and assume the “sheeple” don’t know or see that. Okay … so why on earth would she spent half of the video showing Jon with the girl du jour? That shows me that he is putting living with this girl in Utah ahead of his kids
I agree w/a lot of what Mary has said.
I’m not sure where the breakdown of J&K’s marriage was, but it was easy to see some resentment or belittlement throughout the show’s progression. Kate seems to appear to have a heavy weight lifted off of her shoulder’s now that her & Jon have split. It is difficult to have a spouse that requires direction repeatedly- really is like having another child. Kate has a more controlling or a “need to be in control” type personality- I can relate to that- I’m the same way w/ a lot of things. Jon seems to be a loner. I’m not sure he’ll ever grow up, some people don’t, men & women both.
As for the women that are/have dated Jon since his split w/Kate. I don’t get it! Maybe Jon is fun & that’s what these early 20-something see. Maybe they haven’t followed all the drama. Even if I met Jon & he was a ball full of fun, I know I couldn’t be involved w/a guy like him.
When the show first started to air, I think Kate was being real. As the show went on, it appeared she got worse. I think a lot of women with Children have control issues. We are the main caregivers. It took me awhile to stop being so bossy after the Children were raised. Then I started my own business and I became bossier . What I have learned is how you direct and treat people. There is a nice way then there is a wrong way. Belittlement of your spouse, children, or employees is not going to keep them. Encouragement, and praise is what gives people the will to achieve and become a better person, and partner, have the self confidence to achieve their goals. I don’t see Kate acting like a heavy weight has been lifted. I see her struggling trying to do things on her own. Kate can change her outside looks all she wants, until she changes her attitude she will continue to have problems.
Jon has reacted like a rebelling child!! Out to show Kate!! Hello!!!! Not working!!
I am quite certain that nobody will ever mistake me as a “Kate lover” – I’m probably one of her biggest “un-fans.” I don’t care for her personality, she is not someone I would choose as a friend or even be comfortable with as a distant acquaitance. But all that aside, it’s ridiculous for anyone to try to say that either of them, Jon or Kate, do not completely, 100% all consumingly, love their children. Nor do I believe that either one of them loves the children any more or less than the other. All parents have different styles of behavior, and some parents are more openly and outwardly affectionate with their kids than others. Jon puts out a lot more PDA with the kids than Kate – but that is just their individual personalities. They both love the kids, the kids love both of them.
But I am going to add to this, that just like when we were able to watch the show each week, a small snippet of time out of the whole, highly edited to provide maximum entertainment … we were definitely not privy to what the real reality (sorry) of their lives were. Kate may have been fond of saying it was the “realest reality” show, but I think everyone now knows that really was not the case. Now, from even smaller pieces, less frequently publicized, i.e. periodic pap pics posted on “so-sugary” – I would have to argue that we know again even less than before. I will take that tabloid news with a grain of salt until substantiated by multiple reliable sources. I’m not going to believe “jon’s moving to utah” or “date kate” is going to be her new show, or dirty jobs with kate, whatever.
We do not know their custody arrangement. How do you know Jon is not in Utah during Kate’s custody time? Yes, Kate does show up out and about in PA as opposed to Utah. But just b/c you don’t see Jon, does not mean he’s with the kids any more or less than Kate is. And vice versa. If he wants to spend his spare time commuting across the country to get his custody in, that’s his business.
Kate spent whatever amount of time getting her hair done, doing the People photo-shoot and interview – pretty obviously away from the kids. Good for her, my guess would be it was Jon’s “custody” time. But I don’t know. WE have no right to judge either Jon or Kate based on snippets of gossip and periodic pap pix. They are both single. Jon can date or not date, so can Kate. It does NOT make him a bad parent and her a good parent. His however-long trip to Utah does not mean he wasn’t with the kids the previous week. No pics does not mean “no kids.” We don’t know what their reality is, AND it’s not our business to judge either of them.
Sorry for the length … (sheepish grin) – sheepISH not sheePLE, lol!
And while I am not a frequent “poster” here, and most certainly not in any position to criticize, when one posts an entire comment in bold it can be misconstrued as “loud” – i.e. yelling, kinda like CAPS. Just saying. It does not help your argument, or attempt to explain a differing point of view.
Mary I usually don’t get stirred up over anyone’s statements but to say Kate can change her outside looks all she wants,until she changes her attitude she will continue to have problems. How do you know that Kate does not have regrets over her actions or behavior in her marriage? From some of the interviews I have seen or read it seems that she is capable of admitting she has been wrong in the past. Isn’t that the first step of self -improvement? Since none of us are best friends with Kate nor will be in the near future lets get off the soap box of Kate’s beating Jon down. Do I think she was rude with her husband at times ? YES I am not blind to her actions. But again since we did not live in the house 24/7 we did not see all the interactions that they had as a couple.
Let me give a personal example here. Last nite I lashed out at my husband for dinner being served so late 9.30 pm. ( I worked until 5.30 pm) This morning I am regretting my actions and behavior. My husband is a person who gets sidetracked very easily and as much as I love him it irritates the hell out of me at times that we can not eat dinner at a reasonable time. This is a ongoing issue with us and for the most part I have taken over the cooking duties so I can eat at a earlier time. But I also get very frustrated that we have had several calm discussions over it and it is still not resolved. What is the point of bringing this up? I am not perfect and I have good moments and bad moments and last night was a bad moment.It is a button pusher in our marriage. It does not mean I am a awful selfish, control freak, it means that I need to find a better way to communicate my needs better.
As far as “Jon and Kate” go aside from their children, there is no Jon and Kate anymore. While I feel that their past behavior is irrelevant at this point since they have divorced, if anything Jon’s antics this past year make me wonder exactly what Kate was dealing with behind the scenes all along. I have more patience now for her outbursts back then. I highly doubt Jon morphed into an irresponsible, poor decision maker over night. Its hard not to think those traits were there during their marriage.
Samantha, I agree with your take on the situation. This did not happen overnight. I can’t help but wonder how long Jon’s behavior was like this before the split occured.
Thank You DA!! Not yelling just like the bold print. I agree with you 100%
Paige – respectfully, I think the video shows that the person who put it together puts this “new girl” up on equal footing with the kids, not necessarily that Jon does. He does seem to do the high school-type of falling in & out of the “greatest love of his life” in cycles shorter than most people’s work-day, but I don’t see how this video, assembled by somebody else with an obvious personal agenda, reflects on Jon’s priorities.
Again, we cannot know if time spent in Utah with her was time that could have legitimately been spent with the kids … it very easily could have been Kate’s time; and if so, regardless of whether he was sitting in a motel room in PA, staying with a local relative, or wandering around Sundance with the latest girl of the hour trying to attract the paps attention … it would not have been time he could’ve spent with the kids.
Hey, I agree with most of the moms on here who said they would not be so far from their own kids if not absolutely necessary, but to each his own. Just b/c his “free” time is not spent in the same state as his kids does NOT mean he is not a good parent.
Diane says:
Let me give a personal example here. Last nite I lashed out at my husband for dinner being served so late 9.30 pm. ( I worked until 5.30 pm) This morning I am regretting my actions and behavior. My husband is a person who gets sidetracked very easily and as much as I love him it irritates the hell out of me at times that we can not eat dinner at a reasonable time. This is a ongoing issue with us and for the most part I have taken over the cooking duties so I can eat at a earlier time. But I also get very frustrated that we have had several calm discussions over it and it is still not resolved. What is the point of bringing this up? I am not perfect and I have good moments and bad moments and last night was a bad moment.It is a button pusher in our marriage. It does not mean I am a awful selfish, control freak, it means that I need to find a better way to communicate my needs better.
i get ya! just imagine a video of that example being publicly viewed…and other times as well…we sure would form an opinion of you…which would NOT be a true one because it is a few moments of time captured…out of a 24 hour period.
and no matter how many shows the gosselins made and how many times we saw kate lash out or be mean those times in relation to the total amount of time the shows were on is so negligible.
just like that video *believe it or not*. those are snippets of time throughout several years…snippets that make up what? 4 minutes out of how many millions of minutes over the years?
we also need to remember that if we used diane’s example in a video, just like the jon and kate show we see a very very limited and EDITED amount of time.
i’m not saying we didn’t see kate being mean but i do think (and jon and kate have both said) that the show was edited and we didn’t see any resolutions which actually happened. i also am sure that jon was just as bad as kate..to the kids and to kate as kate was to him. we just didn’t see that as much. but we did see it.
an example would be the time they were pulling into driveway of the beach house they rented over july 4th. jon was backing in the trailer and van and he yelled *shut your mouth* at the kids. and he yelled it very meanly. i don’t recall kate ever yelling shut up to any of the kids.
and when jon did kate would ask him to be nicer…jon never asked kate to be nicer to the kids. he let it go…did he agree with her yelling at them? at her ways of disciplining? at her gasp! putting sick boy on the floor of the laundry room?
see there are so many things to consider when making opinions based on edited tv. and why anyone would make an opinion that is so strong that it takes up so much of their personal time and invests so much of their emotion to one whom they do not even know is outside my realm of comprehension. and to go to any length to actually try to ruin a stranger’s future employment? sad sad sad…and very scary
I tend to agree with Samantha and Judy on the “not overnight” thing with Jon. I doubt he just woke up one morning and decided to see how big of a public spectacle he could make of himself.
But I also then question Kate’s repeated statements about the “old” Jon, how she wishes the old Jon would call, or she’d wake up and be back to the old Jon … doesn’t that say that she sees Jon and his current behavior/personality as foreign to her? I have trouble with believing she’d put up with it over any period of time, either.
I cannot see her “with” a Jon like he is now … so somehow he was something different than he is right now.
It’s one aspect that very much confuses me. What the heck actually happened?
The thing about Jon rebelling like a child is that he’s not a child, he’s an adult. He was an adult when he met Kate. I never saw any signs that he was cowed by or beaten down by Kate. If anything, I thought that they both contributed to the “Kate – critical taskmaster, Jon – naughty little boy” dynamic. They both got something out of it, even though it wasn’t healthy. Kate hasn’t had any relationships that we know of since the split, so it’s hard to see if it’s something she would consciously or unconsciously recreate with another man. I was interested to see the way that Hailey talked about Jon in interviews and on Twitter when they were together (before the relationship got really contentious) – she was frequently belittling and deprecating towards him.
Armchair psych moment here: I think this is Jon’s type, and I would bet that his mother has a strong personality.
DH, not to speak for Paige, but I got from her post that she was saying that by focusing on Jon’s latest girlfriend, the maker of the video wasn’t making her point (Jon being a great parent), very well. I think “we” all know better than to take those videos seriously.
I don’t think anyone is saying Jon is a bad father because he is in Utah. I’m assuming he and Kate have worked out the custody issues to their satisfaction. I think we’ve mentioned that “if” he had trouble holding down a job and sharing custody, as Mary suggested, it would be easier if he lived near the children.
My problem with Jon is that, based on everything we’ve heard and seen from him in the past few months, he doesn’t seem to be doing anything but having fun and getting into legal trouble. Other than the Ed Hardy and Michael Lohan fiascos, he doesn’t seem to have any plans for supporting himself and his children. We don’t know what kind of show Kate is doing, but we know they are planning one with her. All we know about Jon’s future plans is the lawsuit against him.
I am not perfect and I have good moments and bad moments and last night was a bad moment.
Exactly. That’s something I think people should remember, not just with Kate but with other celebrities and people in general. When you are seeing a snippet or a moment of a person’s life, it’s hard to put into context and determine whether that person acts that way all the time or you’re seeing a bad moment – possibly their worst moment. Now, there are some “worst moments” that are harder to excuse – obviously, hitting your child is not acceptable – but I always find it so hard to believe that most of Kate’s detractors seem to have nothing but positive and happy interactions with their children and spouses 24/7. They never yell, they never lose their temper, they are never rude or thoughtless or bitchy. I’ve actually seen people say this, more times than I can count. It’s simply not believable to me.
Because we’ve seen more than a few snippets of Kate, we can kind of put some of her less palatable behavior in context. She was definitely not the most patient or respectful spouse (I’d say the same of Jon, btw). But another thing about the detractors is that they claim (and seem to believe) that Kate never had positive, loving interactions with her husband and her kids. That’s simply, demonstrably untrue. Did she have bad moments on the show? Sure. More than some wives and mothers might? Maybe. But there are examples in every episode of her being kind, loving and patient. There are people who simply refuse to see this; it interferes with their view of Kate Gosselin as the devil incarnate.
I don’t think anyone is saying Jon is a bad father because he is in Utah. I’m assuming he and Kate have worked out the custody issues to their satisfaction. I think we’ve mentioned that “if” he had trouble holding down a job and sharing custody, as Mary suggested, it would be easier if he lived near the children.
I’m just a posting fool today (somehow this often correlates with being busy at work – must get back to it!), but this reminds me of one of my main issues with the critics: they often act like being a good parent v. being a bad parent is some black and white notion – you are one or the other. One bad decision, one raised voice, one whatever-the-critics-don’t-approve of, and you’re a Bad Parent, apparently for life. I don’t even like to think in those terms (good v. bad) because parenting isn’t a competition. But if you insist on viewing it that way, at least concede that there is a continuum, and that a parent can make a selfish decision or indulge in some bad behavior and still be essentially a good and loving parent. If I ran the world, Jon would stay single for a while and get his act together. But the fact that I think that he isn’t making great decisions in his romantic life, and I think those less-than-great decisions may potentially have an impact on his kids, doesn’t necessarily mean he should be branded with the bad parent label. I think that’s too harsh.
Great discussion Gosselin bloggers! I really enjoyed reading this tonight.
Both Jon and Kate have demonstrated really loving behavior on the show. I think Kate’s “control freak” and Jon’s “roll with the punches” personalities were accentuated and highlighted for ratings. Kevin and Jodi have said that they were a loving couple, that they had spats but made up. Even now, after announcing he “despises” Kate, Jon admitted to Samantha that TLC didn’t show resolution to their arguments.
I always keep in mind that TLC edited a show because they were creating a reality show, not a case study. Reality shows are edited for entertainment value. It could be the “realist reality” show out there, but that may not be saying much. How many reality shows are documentaries? They should probably call the genre unscripted instead of reality shows. I definitely agree that we don’t know who has custody when, or how often either has the children. We do know that they have both agreed that they split custody. I respect that.
I don’t think a move to Utah would be practical and may seriously threaten the amount of time Jon can be around his kids, HOWEVER, we don’t kow he’s thinking of moving.
Did any of you ladies watch Oprah today? Oprah guest was Rosie O’Donnell.
One of the things that Rosie said, was that fame corrupts!!
I believe the fame and attention Jon and Kate received from TLC corrupted their marriage.
Family’s are forever!!
I have not always been a fan of Rosie!! Seems like she has calmed down a bit. She said
Suszanne Summers called and talk to her about Hormone Therpy. Ha ha Roise took Suszanne advice and she says she feels like a new person.
Because we’ve seen more than a few snippets of Kate, we can kind of put some of her less palatable behavior in context. She was definitely not the most patient or respectful spouse (I’d say the same of Jon, btw). But another thing about the detractors is that they claim (and seem to believe) that Kate never had positive, loving interactions with her husband and her kids. That’s simply, demonstrably untrue. Did she have bad moments on the show? Sure. More than some wives and mothers might? Maybe. But there are examples in every episode of her being kind, loving and patient. There are people who simply refuse to see this; it interferes with their view of Kate Gosselin as the devil incarnate.
January 25, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Jennie@IW says:
i think that about says it all.
Paige – respectfully, I think the video shows that the person who put it together puts this “new girl” up on equal footing with the kids, not necessarily that Jon does. He does seem to do the high school-type of falling in & out of the “greatest love of his life” in cycles shorter than most people’s work-day, but I don’t see how this video, assembled by somebody else with an obvious personal agenda, reflects on Jon’s priorities.
What I meant is is if I wanted to make a video proving a father loved his kids (which appears to be Jibber Jabbers intent) , I would not use half of the video to show scenes of the father with a girl friend. I was commenting on the video and how it doesn’t make the point it intends to.
Again, we cannot know if time spent in Utah with her was time that could have legitimately been spent with the kids … it very easily could have been Kate’s time; and if so, regardless of whether he was sitting in a motel room in PA, staying with a local relative, or wandering around Sundance with the latest girl of the hour trying to attract the paps attention … it would not have been time he could’ve spent with the kids.
If Jon moves to Utah, he is not going to easily be able to get to school if Mady is in a violin recital or Cara is playing in a soccer game. If he was in PA, even on his non-custody days, there would be no reason he couldn’t go to the kids events. I know divorced parents who do this all the time.
I think the key is also how much time Jon wanted to have and how much he is actually with the kids. We have no idea other than he agreed that Kate would be the primary parent.
Paige – LOL, I guess we were both saying/seeing the same thing and I just misinterpreted your comment, thinking you were referencing Jon versus JibberJabbers. That said, I wholeheartedly agree … trying to show Jon as “parentus supremius” was diminished significantly by the girlfriend of the moment shots (along with over-done hearts & flowers).
Moving to Utah? Yes, I did see the rumor, and for now that’s exactly how I’ll continue to view it, as a rumor, until legitimately validated. And moving to Utah would definitely hinder his “co-parenting.” My commentary on the Utah thing was primarily just relative to the Sundance/snowboarding trip recently in the tabs. So, moving = bad idea, vacay = no big deal, IMO.
I guess I see the primary parent issue differently – primary parent means that their legal status/address/place of residence is with Kate in the PA house. Usually (layperson experience, not legal knowledge) one parent is considered primary, regardless of the actual split of custody time.
My hubs & I have custody of his son 4 “overnights” per week to his mother’s 3 overnights … we have shared joint custody, but dad is primary parent – which is how his divorce/custody is worded in their PA divorce. All major decisions (health, education, extra-curricular activities, i.e. getting drivers’ permit etc.) are required to be shared decisions. So I don’t think the public (us!) really knows what those aspects of their divorce/custody entail.
Jennie – LOL, I agree on the whole workload versus posting issue! Topics are usually most interesting to me when I don’t have time to be interested!
Hey everyone! I’ve been a reader here for a few months but this is my first time posting. I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions and think that the respectful debate is a refreshing change from other sites =)
So why am I posting here now? Well, I also read the Princess boards and I just saw one comment there that made me really sad… Apparently the comment below was left in the comments section of the E! online article:
Proud not to be a haterSun, Jan 24, 2010, 5:35 PM
Rumor has it that the Gosselin twins found GWOP on the internet at school, and that’s why they stepped up their therapy time. I’m not surprised.
Now, obviously nobody knows if this is actually the truth just because it was left in a comments section, but if it is true, it makes me really sad for those girls. I agree with some comments that have been made before that both Jon and Kate have made mistakes, but in no way should the kids be punished for their bad choices. And despite the show, I really don’t believe there were severe negative consequences for the kids that came directly from the show… the negative consequences for the kids come from hate sites as well as Jon’s continued irresponsible behavior.
I could go on in response to the original post, but I agree with what several of you have said (Paige, kimmie, and Samantha to name a few) so there’s really no need to re-hash it.
Thanks for all the quality reading time you’ve given me!
If Jon moves to Utah, he is not going to easily be able to get to school if Mady is in a violin recital or Cara is playing in a soccer game. If he was in PA, even on his non-custody days, there would be no reason he couldn’t go to the kids events. I know divorced parents who do this all the time.
I think the key is also how much time Jon wanted to have and how much he is actually with the kids. We have no idea other than he agreed that Kate would be the primary parent.
For the life of me, I don’t understand why he wouldn’t want to be in the same state as his children. I would think the closer, the better, primary parent or not. Is anybody else wishing and hoping he’d get an epiphany and revert back to a responible adult who cares about his chidlren’s welfare and shows it?
Mary, I am not a Rosie fan either. I think she’s very polarizing who has her own agenda and uses the media when she wants it.
I’ve felt for a long time that the hate blogs would prove to be much more damaging to the Gosselin children than being on the show ever was. The hateful, spiteful lies that have been encouraged by these delusional people are set for life. They will always be available for these children to see.
I’ve thought many times about how I would handle something like that if it were to happen to me. I wonder if Kate’s management team and TLC have done anything to try to stop GWOP and their ilk. I would have taken legal action a long time ago and am surprised that nothing has been done to stop them.
Using the word “advocate” has become such a joke… These people don’t care one thing about the Gosselin children. All they know is their irrational hate of Kate. They are dangerous and I don’t know how they live with themselves. To ruin the lives of people you only know from a TV show is sick. Just plain sick. I feel so badly for the twins to have found that site on top of everything else that has happened to them this year.
Sorry to vent, but I know I am among friends. There are not many places left to discuss this.
I don’t know if we can believe that anonymous poster about the twins and GWoP, but that has been my main concern in all this. Some day, all the kids are going to read that stuff, including Jo/Ke’s, (even down to sweet baby Benny), and Julie’s (if she has any). The Gosselin kids aren’t the only ones who’ll be needing therapy. I can’t begin to imagine having to explain that crap to my kids.
But you know what? The rest of the GWoPpers don’t have to worry about that, do they? Their kids won’t be affected, unless their moms are dumb enough to tell them about it. (Well, assuming all those little mud pie eaters actually exist.) I hope Jo/Ke and Julie are really happy with themselves.
Oh, and today on Oprah, Charlie Sheen’s ex, Denise Richardson, said that her five year old daughter’s classmate told her daughter that her dad was in jail and asked if he was still there.
Now, those are Hollywood kids, but it’s only a matter of time before someone tells the Gosselin kids all that stuff, if they haven’t already.
Oh I’m sure the Gosselin kids have already heard a lot of the drama. My niece is the same age as the twins- let me tell you- these kids are not naive! It blows my mind how much gossip a 10 year old knows!
The fact is, as awful as GWOP posters can be, the kids don’t have to go online to see this crap- it’s been on magazine covers for months, & w/the repeated interviews of Jon, Hailey & Kate, there’s enough to make any child have a very difficult time.
heidi and judy i totally agree…all things else aside the gwop site is bound to bring hurt and possibly more to many innocent people. it actually makes me cry.
i’d rather poke my eye out, i think we all know that there is no way on god’s earth that the amount of hate that abounds on gwop and the psycological and emotional damage it can do to those kids could ever be the same as reading magazine covers and seeing the few interviews. gwop is TO ME a hate site that should be shut down. and i don’t say that lightly. it’s just so full of hate and there is nothing there worth anything to anyone.
advocates do NOT hurt innocent people PERIOD….
Just wanted to extend welcomes to Heidi and DH (not sure if this is your first thread posting), but welcome still.
So many of you have made good points. It says something that I can agree with something in nearly every post (and that doesn’t mean we all agree on every aspect of this situation by a long stretch).
As someone who leans towards viewing Kate as the more responsible and focused parent, I appreciate DH’s input. I do think we need to take all “rumors” posted on Radar, TMZ, US, etc. with a grain of salt. It is true that we do not actually know the custody situation (and that is a good thing).
As for the twins reading the bile and hatred online, it makes my heart hurt, but if it hasn’t happened yet, it will happen. I truly hope it’s in a few more years, when they have been prepared for it.
One last comment. Did anyone see “Intervention” last night? There was a repeat from earlier last year. Basically, the set-up was a 43-year-old divorced dad with two kids who had a very serious alcohol problem. I am not sure of the kids exact ages – maybe 11 (boy) and 16 (girl)? In any case, it was just heartbreaking to witness what was exposed on camera. The intervention did not go well. Both kids were in tears. Mom was in tears. It was just so raw. Granted it was one episode, not a series, but it doesn’t compare in any way to Colin’s constipation being shown or Mady’s behavior being called “ugly” by her mom IMO in terms of very personal, difficult moments being exposed.
I still don’t know what to really think about it. I don’t believe those kids should have been put on camera, but obviously their mom thought it was for the greater good – ? I can forsee legislation in the future dealing with children participating in on-going reality shows, but I don’t know that it will extend to those who just do one episode of a “documentary.” Yet, their pain is still there – captured for all time. I can’t imagine what it was like for them to go to school after this aired.
As you can tell, I remain very conflicted on this issue.
I too have had a big concern about the kids hearing the gossip about their parents and the crap on the GWOP sites. When I was 8, back in ’61, my mother left my father (this was not permanent, just a ploy on mom’s part to get dad to appreciate her more). My older brother mentioned it to a friend and the next thing people were coming up to me and asking me about it. I knew nothing about it except what I was being told, that mom had to go away for a little while but would be back. Kids that I never played with, just knew from school were coming up and asking me the details. I was so embarrassed and hurt by the things that were being said about my mother. I feel bad for the Gosselin kids because what they are going to hear is far worse. My story was not in the tabloids, there was no internet, and no gossip channels on TV. I cannot understand how grown people can spew such hate and so publicly especially when they claim to be advocates for the kids. I really wish there were a way that Kate could go after GWOP legally, and that includes Aunt Jodi and her sister, and Kevin.
I’m sorry your little 8 year old self had to go through that, Jan.
It’s bad enough when it’s random strangers talking about you and your family, but at least it’s easier to explain (“They don’t know us, they say things about everybody, they’re sick or crazy…”). But when it’s your own relatives, who claim to love you, who are helping to feed the GWoP monster, that’s a whole new level of hurt. I can’t believe people still say how wonderful it would be for the kids to have Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin back in their lives.
And speaking of those two, it’s been three months since they appeared on GMA with Gloria Allred and I’m wondering how their child advocacy is coming along. I can’t find anything about it online. Are they still waiting for a nice senator or congressman to volunteer to take on their “cause”. People who are really concerned about making new laws manage to do it all the time.
I think Paul Petersen managed to get some legislation passed, before the Gosselins even came on the scene.
To Kimmie;
I never said that the magazines & interviews were the same as the filth that GWOP posts- I said it’s unfortunate that the kids can see this crap about their parents anywhere- not just the internet. I believe in free speech, however I think people need to be held accountable for what they say as well. I have not visited GWOP in over a year, as I feel it’s based from a group of very immature/jealous/insecure women. But from what I read on here from time to time, it sounds like their internet bullying of the Gosselin family will never dwindle.
“i’d rather poke my eye out, i think we all know that there is no way on god’s earth that the amount of hate that abounds on gwop and the psycological and emotional damage it can do to those kids could ever be the same as reading magazine covers and seeing the few interviews.”
The fact is, as awful as GWOP posters can be, the kids don’t have to go online to see this crap- it’s been on magazine covers for months, & w/the repeated interviews of Jon, Hailey & Kate, there’s enough to make any child have a very difficult time.
i took the bolded part of your comment at face value. my opinion is that it isn’t the same *crap* they will see at gwop…not by a looooooooooooooooong (and hateful) shot.
as far as gwop now…all you read there is criticism for everything kate does, says, wears, and interpretations of her facial expressions. along with the same hate they have always spewed.
I watched the movie about Jon and enjoyed it despite sappy music, could have lived without the captions, I think the point gets across. It’s a refreshing change. Kids don’t fake their love for their dad or running into his arms overjoyed ot see him, their faces beaming. That is nice to see. It would be nice to see whether it was Kate or Jon. What is appalling is that this jibber jabber has devoted an entire site to “making a case against” Kate Gosselin. What in the world? Is this Jon’s sister or lawyer or publicist or something? Who else cares enough to try and make him seem wonderful and make a case against his wife? Get a life, jibber. You seem like a jibbering idiot.
DH I liked reading your posts. I am not a fan of either of these people and I find the whole concept of being a fan somewhat childish, I think the last fan club I considered belonging to was for the Monkees in 1968 when I was in 4th grade. The idea of adults caring enough about what some reality show celebrity does, in order to create whole site about them, whether positive or negative, is frightening. When did “hate sites” become popular? Only with the Internet? One of the bad things about this techology that is far reaching widely available and anonymous.
Possibly the children are better off without the show. If this is the kind of emotion these people inspire I am thankful to get the kids off of it andout of the limelight before that commentary starts being about THEM. I think parents have to consider that attitude that “if you are a celbrity you are a legitimate target of commentary” when they use their children to be on reality shows. I find it highly unlikely that the Gosselin children’s school allows them unfettered access to the Internet where they can research blogs and be able to read enough of what is there to upset themselves; that sounds like drama. However there is no need for them to do that as a previous poster points out, if they go to the grocery store they can see tabloids with their mother’s face on it and her being called a monster, they can see their dad with his various girls and read rumors of him moving far away with some young chick. As long as people will pay to read this stuff someone will publish it. Vile.